Author Topic: Beauty of ones spouse. Is it necessary? (Read 25911 times)

spouse of Jesus · « **on:** March 19, 2012, 02:41:54 AM »

It is not one of those recent men vs. women discussions. Neither it is about ''beauty is objective vs. it is in the eyes of beholder".
I just need your opinion about the idea that one's spouse HAS TO BE physically desirable in order to keep one from falling into sin.

copticruiser · « **Reply #1 on:** March 19, 2012, 02:52:16 AM »

I just meditate on the fact that there are some very ugly people in this world who are so saintly and beautiful inside that I have NO IDEA the true value of beauty.

If we view all things through the eyes of God we get a very clear picture. Besides everything young, beautiful and attractive through the course of time generally gets very depreciated and worn out anyways. Its all so fading so passing.

For a spouse its nice to have them attractive but at the end of the day its wonderful to have them compatible.

I often think of how hideous gorgeous immoral people will look like in Hell as Demons. Or the handicap child who dies in innocence how beautiful before God. We are told by the saints that we all have different colors and crowns that pertain to our life here on earth.

You only ask that question because you and I are both drenched in media that promotes physical beauty. Another reason I dont buy barbie dolls!!!

:dancing:

Telesphorus · « **Reply #2 on:** March 19, 2012, 02:54:59 AM »

Quote from: spouse of Jesus

It is not one of those recent men vs. women discussions. Neither it is about ''beauty is objective vs. it is in the eyes of beholder".
I just need your opinion about the idea that one's spouse HAS TO BE physically desirable in order to keep one from falling into sin.

When people make a commitment there's always the possibility of more serious temptations coming along later. Particularly when circuмstances change. Searching one's heart is necessary, to recognize how severe such temptations might be.

It is very dangerous, maybe foolish, to marry someone without mutual attraction.

Even if one is very generous, and willing to overlook appearance, a feeling perhaps of having cheated oneself can easily arise.

copticruiser · « **Reply #3 on:** March 19, 2012, 02:59:18 AM »

Oh did I actually answer your question about one falling into sin?

Practising catholics often think about hell. I do anyhow. So I dont care how handsome a guy or how rich or perfect there aint no way Im breaking a sacrament and offending GOD and embarrassing myself in front of my children.

You either love or Lord or you dont. You follow the rules because they are apart of your faith and for your own protection or the whole thing is some sort of outward show.

Too refrain from sin one must Meditate on Death

John Vianny apparently went to bed in a coffin.

Now thats a sobering thought.

ewwh its getting so late I will pay tomorrow goodnight

:tv-disturbed:

Maizar · « **Reply #4 on:** March 19, 2012, 04:57:24 AM »

Quote from: spouse of Jesus

It is not one of those recent men vs. women discussions. Neither it is about ''beauty is objective vs. it is in the eyes of beholder".
I just need your opinion about the idea that one's spouse HAS TO BE physically desirable in order to keep one from falling into sin.

Well to start with a joke, it was once said that it is better to find someone who is rich, beautiful and intelligent than to find someone who is poor, ugly and stupid.

What makes women attractive? Despite what men say they find attractive (when asked to rate some pictures of women), they are generally attracted to women who do not match those pictures and rate lower on scores of attractiveness. An explanation for this is that men subconsciously are afraid of losing their woman (understandably), and will choose one who they think will stay the course. Also there is a logic to beauty, generally being that symmetry (likelihood of normal genetic makeup), wide hips (likelihood of not dying at childbirth), large breasts (likely to have babies who survive and thrive) are considered attractive, on average. Of course attraction is much, much more than physique, and no amount of physical perfection covers up a rotten personality.

So attractiveness is desirable for good reason, but how necessary is it to prevent sin?

Good marriage educators try to convince the prospective couples that, no matter how beautiful they find their beloved, there will come a day when they will be angry, tired, frustrated and that no amount of perfection will render their spouse beautiful and desirable to them in that instant. This is the big trial, and it simply doesn't matter an iota what the spouse looks like, if the person doesn't have the determination to be married and stay married for life, it will fail.

That said, satisfaction with a marriage is helped with having successful, healthy children, and a healthy spouse, which tends to go with a beautiful wife, but this is a tenuous connection.

Ultimately, I say no. Outer beauty is not necessary. If a man is true, he will stay true until the end.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #5 on:** March 19, 2012, 11:38:08 AM »

Quote

What makes women attractive? Despite what men say they find attractive (when asked to rate some pictures of women), they are generally attracted to women who do not match those pictures and rate lower on scores of attractiveness. An explanation for this is that men subconsciously are afraid of losing their woman (understandably), and will choose one who they think will stay the course.

No, the claim that someone is "sub-consciously" attracted to less attractive women because they think they will be more faithful is nonsense.

Men are often just less selective in regards to women, and find it easier to find themselves attracted to less attractive women.

At the same time, a woman's appearance might actually be relatively good, and yet a man will not want her because she isn't fine enough.

One needs to be extremely careful about these kinds of claims though, because they're often exaggerated. You'll often hear men are like dogs and at the same time you'll hear it claimed they only go for the most beautiful women and ignore the rest. These contradictory assertions are typically used by modern women and their defenders who are trying to manipulate men.

In fact, less attractive women are not necessarily more virtuous than attractive women, although attractive women may find themselves facing more temptation and find themselves drawn into more worldly and corrupt company. You will often hear women talk about how beautiful women are often seen with less attractive men. (these less attractive men, often have other "desirable" (though not particularly honorable) traits. This obfuscates the reality, that women (especially young women) are far more selective than men are. But in the popular discourse, you're not going to hear any pressure put on young women to be more realistic in seeking out a marriage partner.

Thaumaturgus · « **Reply #6 on:** March 19, 2012, 12:22:43 PM »

A Catholic man should act as if he were St.Joseph looking at the Blessed Mother. In another words, the marriage between St.Joseph and Mary is the ideal to which all Catholics should strive to imitate. This does not necessarily mean of course that all Catholic couples should abstain from each other throughout the whole of their married life (although some married saints were called to this vocation in the past), but it would be incuмbent on all Catholic married couples to live chastely with each other so that the marriage bed is not defiled with undue concupiscence.

Concupiscence is inevitably going result in the marriage act of course due to the penalty of Original Sin, nevertheless, the couple should not desire each other when they come together,but only desire to have children. The beauty of women is deceitful as is testified in the scriptures, and I believe Jesus,son of Sirach (and possibly some passage in the proverbs) says something to the effect that a man should not desire the beauty of a woman.

The last chapter of Proverbs highly praises the "virtous" woman and sets her as the sort of woman that a man should desire,not her physical beauty. This chapter in Proverbs of course alludes primarily to the Blessed Mother, but in a secondary sense to any saintly Catholic woman.

Alas, there are few Catholics left in the world, so these things are by no means being followed and obeyed by hardly anyone out there. As far as I know, there are only a few dozen Catholics who reside only in New Mexico and Colorado (including myself by the grace of God).

Telesphorus · « **Reply #7 on:** March 19, 2012, 01:05:15 PM »

You are distorting Catholic teachings. The primary purpose of marriage is procreation, and God gave us a nature to seek out a suitable spouse, not to disregard natural goods.

Quote

He had not yet ended these words within himself, and behold Rebecca came out, the daughter of Bathuel, son of Melcha, wife to Nachor the brother of Abraham, having a pitcher on her shoulder: 16 An exceeding comely maid, and a most beautiful virgin, and not known to man: and she went down to the spring, and filled her pitcher, and was coming back. 17 And the servant ran to meet her, and said: Give me a little water to drink of your pitcher. 18 And she answered: Drink, my lord. And quickly she let down the pitcher upon her arm, and gave him drink. 19 And when he had drunk, she said: I will draw water for your camels also, till

Matthew · « **Reply #8 on:** March 19, 2012, 01:14:58 PM »

I realize that beauty is objective, not subjective. Either an object has consonance, symmetry, order, etc. or it doesn't.

HOWEVER --

When it comes to the attractiveness of women, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I know it sounds like a contradiction, but different men ARE attracted to different kinds of women.

True, some women can be considered ugly by "most" -- but again, there are men that would be attracted to one of her features, perhaps the only beautiful one, and would overlook all the others. And looks aren't the whole picture -- some men want a helpmate, someone faithful, someone not hotly desired by hundreds of men, someone to discuss things with, someone with this or that virtue, someone good at cooking and keeping a clean house, someone good at raising children, someone totally devoted to him, etc. and physical beauty doesn't help with any of these things!

Some men like blondes, others prefer brunettes. Some like "skinny things"; others like women who are a bit more stocky. Same with tall/short.

Also, some guys want a woman who is highly intelligent, whereas other men would feel threatened by such a woman, because let's face it -- not every man has a high IQ.

In fact, each man comes from a different family, and is raised under slightly different circuмstances, so each will have a different psychological makeup. That is why each man is going to have a different "ideal woman".

So there is no single "most beautiful woman" that everyone can agree on.

Matthew · « **Reply #9 on:** March 19, 2012, 01:35:20 PM »

If you wanna be happy for the rest of the your life,
never make a pretty woman your wife
So from my personal point of view,
get an ugly girl to marry you

Marcelino · « **Reply #10 on:** March 19, 2012, 01:44:08 PM »

Quote from: spouse of Jesus

It is not one of those recent men vs. women discussions. Neither it is about ''beauty is objective vs. it is in the eyes of beholder".
I just need your opinion about the idea that one's spouse HAS TO BE physically desirable in order to keep one from falling into sin.

No, I don't think so. No offense, but why would anybody ask that. It reminds me of John Lithgow in "Terms of Endearment," with that pathetic crying seen at the restaurant, where he balls about not being able to have sex with his paralyzed wife and basically begs this girl to have sex with him.

Matthew · « **Reply #11 on:** March 19, 2012, 03:46:21 PM »

I think the idea that "one's wife must be breathtakingly beautiful for the husband to avoid infidelity" is complete hogwash.

For one thing, you choose the women who is sufficiently attractive for you.

Next, when you marry her and live a normal married life, certain hormones make both husband and wife even more attractive to each other. It's how God designed it.

Last of all, if you can't avoid sin because there are other beautiful women out there, then you will have problems NO MATTER WHO you are married to, and you probably didn't arrive at the altar with purity intact either.

If you can only remain pure because you have someone "just as beautiful, if not better, waiting for you at home" then how do you stay pure before marriage, hmmm?

For such men, I would recommend working on custody of the eyes, and a regime of fasting and penance.

All men have to learn how to control themselves, both before, during, and AFTER marriage. We all have to get used to the concept "see and don't touch".

Actually, for Catholics it's "Try not to see, don't think on her too much, certainly not THAT way, and DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT touching..."

Telesphorus · « **Reply #12 on:** March 19, 2012, 03:49:43 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

I think the idea that "one's wife must be breathtakingly beautiful for the husband to avoid infidelity" is complete hogwash.

Well, it's certainly possible for men whose wives do not appeal to them to be tempted by other women.

And the same thing can be said (although it seldom is in popular discourse) about women who leave their husbands.

Matthew · « **Reply #13 on:** March 19, 2012, 04:01:40 PM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

Quote from: Matthew
I think the idea that "one's wife must be breathtakingly beautiful for the husband to avoid infidelity" is complete hogwash.

Well, it's certainly possible for men whose wives do not appeal to them to be tempted by other women.

And the same thing can be said (although it seldom is in popular discourse) about women who leave their husbands.

And I say:

Show me a man who blames his wife's homely figure, looks, etc. for his infidelity, and I'll show you an unfaithful jerk looking for an excuse.

Such a man would cheat on his wife no matter how she looked. Even if his wife had a fashion model's level of beauty, other women will still be different (exciting, novel, new) which is all it takes for an unfaithful man with a roving eye.

Now if you want to talk about women "withholding the debt" being at least partially responsible for infidelity -- that I could agree with.

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #14 on:** March 19, 2012, 04:07:02 PM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

Well, it's certainly possible for men whose wives do not appeal to them to be tempted by other women.

That could be said no matter how a man's wife looks. Men can be tempted by other women, even if their wife is the prettiest woman he's ever seen.

If you look at men who cheat on their wives in today's world, most of them cheat for other reasons, not because they thought their wife wasn't pretty.

I agree with Matthew.