Author Topic: Babies at daily Mass (Read 4188 times)

Pax Vobis · « **Reply #15 on:** August 03, 2017, 02:00:17 PM »

Jesus may have been present in the Anglican rite too, but was He pleased at those who had compromised their faith by choosing Henry VIII over the pope? Of course not. In the same way, Jesus "may" be present at certain indult masses (depending on the circuмstances) but is He pleased that people have compromised their faith by choosing a church were the novus ordo is acceptable? The end (having the latin mass) does not justify the means (accepting the novus ordo).

MyrnaM · « **Reply #16 on:** August 03, 2017, 02:46:01 PM »

Quote from: Pax Vobis on August 03, 2017, 02:00:17 PM

Jesus may have been present in the Anglican rite too, but was He pleased at those who had compromised their faith by choosing Henry VIII over the pope? Of course not. In the same way, Jesus "may" be present at certain indult masses (depending on the circuмstances) but is He pleased that people have compromised their faith by choosing a church were the novus ordo is acceptable? The end (having the latin mass) does not justify the means (accepting the novus ordo).

Bishop George Hay of Scotland had this to day about the FALSE, as in Anglican and novus ordo [1729-1811], so I wonder if we are warned to stay away why would He be present.

"False religions are considered in Holy Scripture; for there we are assured that they arise from false teachers, who are called seducers of the people, ravenous wolves, false prophets, who speak perverse things: that they are anti-Christs, and enemies of the cross of Christ; that, departing from the true faith of Christ, they give heed to the spirits of error; that their doctrines are the doctrines of devils, speaking lies; that their ways are pernicious their heresies damnable, and the like. In consequence of which, this general command of avoiding all communication with them in religion is given by the Apostle: “Bear not the yoke together with unbelievers; for what participation hath justice with injustice? Or what fellowship hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? Or what part hath the faithful with the unbeliever? Or what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? For ye are the temple of the living God.” (2 Cor. 6:14)

Marlelar · « **Reply #17 on:** August 03, 2017, 06:44:15 PM »

As to babies, take her if you can handle her, stay home if she is REALLY disruptive. My kids all went through that phase where they would be angels until we walked through the door then suddenly it was like they had ants in their pants and needed to practice all the new words they'd learned! We'd rotate staying home with them to spare fellow parishioners the worst of it. Most people have been around children enough to shrug off some distractions but when they are climbing on the pews or squealing repetitively it's time to exit to the cry room, vestibule, or home.

As to the tangent on FSSP, I stay away from them because the priests are "ordained" by NO bishops, whose own consecrations are questionable, if not even perhaps their own ordinations.

1st Mansion Tenant · « **Reply #18 on:** August 03, 2017, 09:24:59 PM »

This is a quandry, but I suppose if the baby is really disrupting the other's prayer and assisting at Mass, and if you have met your Sunday duty, then it might be wise to save daily Mass for when this phase of childhood is over. While I understand you yearn for the Eucharist and the grace Mass provides, maybe it's unfair to deny the same to the others who attend. Most rational people wouldn't mention the problem to you or give you looks unless the problem was substantial. Even if they are grouchy-old-people, well then they have the right not to be disturbed at Mass too. You sound like a good parent and polite person. You probably wouldn't consider taking a fussy baby into a movie theater and disturbing the experience for the other ticket-buyers, how much more so with the dignity and importance of the Mass where the salvation of someone's soul may be at stake?

PS: I'm not a baby-hater, truly. I raised my children, and now get to see things from the other side. Doesn't the chapel have a baby room? I know the one we have doesn't seem to matter much because we can hear them anyway, but at least then you would be doing your best.

PPS: I concur with the others about the problem with the FSSP, and the NO.

1st Mansion Tenant · « **Reply #19 on:** August 03, 2017, 09:48:59 PM »

Quote from: graceseeker on August 02, 2017, 11:38:47 AM

yeh, i was thinking the same thing. I hate "disturbing" people in any way but I have been accused of "disturbing" people just by walking, say to the restroom or outside the sanctuary for some reason. I think it is very rude and un=Christian to treat people like that. I had to explain to a priest once that, you know, people DO have issues/concerns/needs that must be taken care of wehther they are at Mass or not. If you drank a lot of water before going to Mass, obviously you may have to go to the restroom during Mass, thereby "disturbing" people. Some people just have malice in their heart and/or want to feel morally superior to others so they claim to be disturbed. If a crying baby causes you to stop focusing on Jesus, maybe you don't have such a good thing w/ Jesus? Do ya think?

??

that is MY perspective

:-\ You must have a great deal of concentration. It's contrary to human nature to be able to ignore the cries of a baby. That is so hard-wired into our beings that even when we go deaf in old age, that is the very last frequency we lose. I seriously doubt that many people sit around in the sanctuary just looking for behaviors in others to complain about. If anything most people are loathe to mention any minor annoyances because they don't want to be responsible for someone not coming back and therefore endangering their souls. If more than one person brings up the subject, it is probably a real problem. Also, problems with concentration do not necessarily have anything to do with one's relationship with Christ. Even St Teresa de Avila complained that her thoughts were often like "wild horses". I think it's pretty cavalier to suggest such a thing. If anything, it should make you even more determined not to disturb others if it can be helped.

poche · « **Reply #20 on:** August 04, 2017, 12:17:36 AM »

Is there a crying room there?

cassini · « **Reply #21 on:** August 06, 2017, 09:14:54 AM »

Quote from: Mammavera on August 02, 2017, 11:31:15 AM

Thanks to everyone for replying, but I started this thread to discuss bringing young children to Mass, not the FSSP.

A very interesting post Mamma, one I always wanted to address. I am very familiar with children at Mass. In our SSPX Mass this morning I would say there were as many children as adults, from 2 months old to ten years old. Most behave well but there are always the exceptions. I have often heard babies cry or get upset and Mom then taking them outside until the drama was over. Oh how often I have wanted to say to them that it is a joy to hear children at Mass, even an odd cry, and that I certainly am never disturbed at this the first stage in their Catholic upbringing. I love even to bring my grandchildren to Holy Communion so that they get a blessing and see others receive and best of all, cannot wait until they too can take the Host in their mouth. Children are the future Catholic faith and as all humans know children often get upset and cry a bit. Only if it is a full-blown scream should mothers go outside to comfort the child. Under no circuмstances should any mother consider NOT going to Mass with children in CASE THEY CRIED. It is aduts who complain that need to understand that mothers cannot leave their children outside, that they have to take them to Mass.
Finally, you are doing what Jesus wants, bringing those little ANGELS to His house. How can anyone not understand that babies do cry now and again?

JezusDeKoning · « **Reply #22 on:** August 06, 2017, 10:42:07 AM »

Is the Sunday Mass at the SSPX chapel a High Mass? That might be why there's less of a commotion.

Most of the time, daily Masses are Low Masses. Very quiet, just the server and priest with no sermon.

Incredulous · « **Reply #23 on:** August 06, 2017, 11:50:37 PM »

Keep going to Holy Mass with Baby! :jumping2:

poche · « **Reply #24 on:** August 07, 2017, 11:45:11 PM »

Quote from: Ascetik on August 02, 2017, 12:35:44 PM

As a former FSSP seminarian, I can answer all these questions with certitude.

How do you know they're not? Are you God? Have you ever seen ordinations by any of the Ecclesia Dei orders? They all use the old books, the exact same rites and the same as the SSPX and every other traditional order in the Church uses. If you think they do otherwise, you are very ignorant of how they operate and are assuming a lot. You don't have to agree with "Indult" orders and the way they were established, but stop spreading disinformation which simply isn't true.

As regards to seminary formation, since I was there, and knew pretty much every seminarian and priest, I can assure you that they taught the Catholic faith, Thomism, Catechism of the Council of Trent, the Syllabus, 6 years of Latin, etc etc etc. It is a traditional seminary, not a Novus Ordo one. I have seen probably over 30 FSSP priests celebrate mass, and not one of them has violated the rubrics from what I can tall, not even once, so please spare me your diatribe which is completely unfounded.

The FSSP doesn't share Novus Ordo churches any longer than I'm aware of. They did have a few shared parishes at one time (many years ago when they first started) but they do not any longer that I'm aware of. You are also assuming every Novus Ordo is invalid, which it isn't, even the SSPX doesn't believe that.

1. There is no "official" stance from the FSSP regarding ordinary vs extraordinary form, that was simply Benedict XVI's opinion. No one is bound to it under pain of sin. I know plenty of FSSP priests who disagree with the distinction.
2. Even the SSPX accepts the new mass can be valid. Even Fr. Hesse. You are taking it to an extreme.
3. The FSSP doesn't take any official stance on that. Pretty much every FSSP priest I've ever met doesn't make that distinction, they just refer to the Novus Ordo as the Novus Ordo and the traditional mass as the traditional mass. You should read some of Fr. Ripperger's Latin Mass Magazine articles on the subject such as The Merit of a Mass. Stop assuming things about people.
4. The FSSP takes no official stance on this that I'm aware of.

I'm not saying I agree that an Indult should even exist, but I have never once experienced my faith being compromised at the FSSP, never. You're doing souls a great injustice by telling them to avoid the traditional sacraments and good priests. God has blessed and continues to bless the FSSP, although it was born in imperfect circuмstances; it is nonetheless bearing much fruit and many graces, to say people should avoid it shows you really know nothing about the formation of priests in the FSSP and how they are formed. I would urge you to have a little more charity towards those who desire to grow in holiness in an indult parish. Not everyone has access to the SSPX, not everyone is convinced by the arguments of the SSPX. I personally do not really care either way, I think both organizations do the work of God.

I saw an FSSP priest commit a major abuse. I didn't realize that it was an abuse until later on.

OHCA · « **Reply #25 on:** August 08, 2017, 01:06:46 AM »

Quote from: Ascetik on August 02, 2017, 10:24:39 AM

What is this a sedevacantist echo chamber?

Have any of you actually gone to an FSSP parish more than a few times? I doubt it.

All their priests are ordained in the traditional rite, so what are you going on about?

Are they all ordained by bishops who were concecrated in the old rite? Do they allow priests to switch to FSSP who have been ordained in the bastardized rite? If so, do they conditionally ordain such "priests?"

Btw--the idea of invalidly ordained priests isn't strictly a sedevacantist idea. There were a lot of R&Rers espousing the idea until muted by their own internal intellectual dishonesty when MISTER Bergoglio emerged.

I won't attend a FSSP "mass" any sooner than a Novus Ordo, diocesan indult except under the rarest of circuмstances (pre-1968 priest; only Mass in an old church building affiliated with another parish; and only by that valid priest), Anglican, Lutheran, etc. I suppose the specifics of a given FSSP location could pan out such as that one rare indult. But I doubt it.

Seraphina · « **Reply #26 on:** August 08, 2017, 01:44:53 AM »

:baby: There seem to be two threads going on here. The OP asked about bringing a baby to daily Mass. She didn't ask others to judge her priest, chapel, etc.

As for a baby at Mass, if your child tends to get very noisy, and it clearly upsets others, sit in the far back where you can make exit if necessary. If your child screams nonstop all throughout Mass, may I suggest it's either time to train him, or get a checkup at the doctor to make sure something isn't causing physical discomfort. If so, have it treated and skip Mass until it's improved. If training is needed, there are more experienced mothers, maybe some of those older ladies, who can help.

If it's normal "baby noises," cooing and the like, bring a bottle or pacifier, a giant plastic Rosary, some simple, noiseless toys, and go to Mass. Be courteous and sit well away from the older singles. Go out only if the noise is loud squealing, persistent wailing, that sort of thing.

Your baby needs to absorb the Holy atmosphere more than the seniors need absolute silence.

Some babies are better Mass goers than others. Some of my earliest memories, age 2 or so, are of going to Mass. My parents say they never had a problem with me and couldn't understand what those other parents were doing wrong until my sister came along! She had colic and eczema that were especially bad in sweltering, unairconditioned churches in summer. She also had/has a completely different temperament than me. I'm a classic melancholic with a touch of phlegmatic. Anna was choleric in bold caps. My parents used to attend different Masses on Sunday, and I'd usually go twice. Even into ages 3 and 4, I recall being very embarrassed when one or other parent would have to carry her out. Perseverance and consistency of discipline did the trick, only it took longer than average.

Even if you can only make a quick visit to Our Lord in the Tabernacle, by all means, bring your baby to Church.

Student of Qi · « **Reply #27 on:** August 12, 2017, 01:30:33 PM »

Quote from: cassini on August 06, 2017, 09:14:54 AM

A very interesting post Mamma, one I always wanted to address. I am very familiar with children at Mass. In our SSPX Mass this morning I would say there were as many children as adults, from 2 months old to ten years old. Most behave well but there are always the exceptions. I have often heard babies cry or get upset and Mom then taking them outside until the drama was over. Oh how often I have wanted to say to them that it is a joy to hear children at Mass, even an odd cry, and that I certainly am never disturbed at this the first stage in their Catholic upbringing. I love even to bring my grandchildren to Holy Communion so that they get a blessing and see others receive and best of all, cannot wait until they too can take the Host in their mouth. Children are the future Catholic faith and as all humans know children often get upset and cry a bit. Only if it is a full-blown scream should mothers go outside to comfort the child. Under no circuмstances should any mother consider NOT going to Mass with children in CASE THEY CRIED. It is aduts who complain that need to understand that mothers cannot leave their children outside, that they have to take them to Mass.
Finally, you are doing what Jesus wants, bringing those little ANGELS to His house. How can anyone not understand that babies do cry now and again?

I concur! My thoughts exactly!
Personally, I'm never bothered by the babies crying, but some old(er) folks can't help but be bothered by it, seemingly. It's interesting how some can/will tolerate and other don't/won't.

Matthew · « **Reply #28 on:** August 12, 2017, 01:39:08 PM »

I think some of the old, crusty, "head buried in their missal" codgers get upset about babies crying because
A) they are Baby Boomers, and
B) they didn't have many kids when they were younger. 3 or 4 children is NOT a natural, typical, or average number for a couple of average fertility.
C) Yet it's a fact that Baby Boomers, with few exceptions, maxed out at 3 or 4 children. It is part of their generational culture.
D) Having less kids means they didn't have as many experiences with their own babies crying during Mass.
E) They are ultimately selfish, more concerned about their own Mass experience, particularly an emotional consolation or "Nice Internal Feelings" -- NIFs (tm) copyright Bishop Williamson. The future of Catholicism on the other hand? Who cares.
This is the same group at my old SSPX chapel who always went to the first Mass (a nice Low Mass -- quicker, quieter, earlier, and almost no kids present!) were against St. Joseph's getting a new, bigger chapel -- although we sorely needed one -- because it would impact their Sunday routine. Who cares about apostolicity or the conversion/salvation of more souls. That's for others to suffer and inconvenience themselves for.

Don't get me started with the Baby Boomer generation though..

I actually have more sympathy for the selfish, directionless, sarcastic Millennials than I do for the Baby Boomers as a generation.

They can have their planned subdivisions, 30 year mortgages, insurance on everything, two-income households, "middle class lifestyle", public school, formula feeding, credit card debt/consumerism, hospital births, "everyone should go to college", trust in Big Pharma, and all the rest of it.

I have literally rejected each one of those institutions, which the Baby Boomers stood for. There's not much about them (again, I'm talking about the generation, not individuals) that I admire, except for maybe their hard work ethic.

JezusDeKoning · « **Reply #29 on:** August 12, 2017, 04:22:37 PM »

Millennials also love Traditionalism more than the baby boomers. Look at your average Novus Ordo parish. No one under 35 is there voluntarily.

Author Topic: Babies at daily Mass (Read 4188 times)

Pax Vobis

Re: Babies at daily Mass

MyrnaM

Re: Babies at daily Mass

Marlelar

Re: Babies at daily Mass

1st Mansion Tenant

Re: Babies at daily Mass

1st Mansion Tenant

Re: Babies at daily Mass

poche

Re: Babies at daily Mass

cassini

Re: Babies at daily Mass

JezusDeKoning

Re: Babies at daily Mass

Incredulous

Re: Babies at daily Mass

poche

Re: Babies at daily Mass

OHCA

Re: Babies at daily Mass

Seraphina

Re: Babies at daily Mass

Student of Qi

Re: Babies at daily Mass

Matthew

Re: Babies at daily Mass

JezusDeKoning

Re: Babies at daily Mass