Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Babies at daily Mass  (Read 4184 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Mammavera

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Reputation: +3/-2
  • Gender: Female
Babies at daily Mass
« on: August 02, 2017, 04:19:53 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  •  :baby:Hello everyone,
    I'm a very happy mother of a beautiful 11-month old baby. Recently I've been feeling a lot of desire to take Communion daily. So I've been going to daily Mass at an FSSP church with my daughter (at the SSPX church where I go on Sundays there is no daily Mass). The problem is that my baby is a little hyperactive. There is no way to keep her quiet in my arms or in the baby carriage, she starts screaming if I try to put her there. So, I let her crawl about. But some people at the church say that she is disturbing them, and I get a lot of unfriendly looks. Now, that doesn't happen at the SSPX parish where I go on Sundays, there, people actually help me with my baby, and nobody complains, on the contrary the priests tell me to please keep bringing her. But maybe at the daily Mass (which is more quiet) her "baby sounds" are more disturbing. And I don't want to be a nuisance, but I'm drawn to the Eucharist like a magnet, and I don't know what to do. I have no one to leave the baby with if I want to go to church alone. Please advise me, what would be a right decision? Should I make a sacrifice and stop going to daily Mass until she's older?
    Thanks everyone and God bless.
    Eli


    Offline MyrnaM

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6273
    • Reputation: +3628/-347
    • Gender: Female
      • Myforever.blog/blog
    Re: Babies at daily Mass
    « Reply #1 on: August 02, 2017, 07:56:09 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Their soul should be as clean and innocent as your babies soul.  
    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

    My new blog @ https://myforever.blog/blog/


    Offline Pax Vobis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 10304
    • Reputation: +6214/-1742
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Babies at daily Mass
    « Reply #2 on: August 02, 2017, 09:12:01 AM »
  • Thanks!4
  • No Thanks!1
  • You don't know if FSSP priests are validly ordained, or if they were properly trained, or if they mix novus ordo hosts with their own hosts.  There are other problems with the indult.  Don't go to the FSSP.

    Offline Pax Vobis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 10304
    • Reputation: +6214/-1742
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Babies at daily Mass
    « Reply #3 on: August 02, 2017, 09:31:55 AM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!0
  • The mass is not the Faith.  If so, then the indult wouldn't be a problem.  But learning, knowing and loving the Faith is our absolute responsibility and is more important than attending mass.  The Japanese, for over a century, had no mass, but they kept the Faith.  The point is, those who say the indult TLM may have very good intentions and, i'd rather have them saying the TLM than the novus ordo, but do they have the Faith?  The FULL faith?  No, their Faith is mixed with liberalism/modernism/quasi-heresy. 

    I'm not saying it's their fault, but it's a fact.  So, one must avoid these priests/places for the good and safety of your own soul.  We must convert them!  We must hand them literature to read so that they LEAVE new-rome and come to tradition, 100%.  The traditional liturgy, while good, does not repair or correct the modernist/heretical IDEALS which infest churches and schools run by new-rome.  A few hours a week of mass (assuming the sermon is orthodox and not tainted with sentimentalism or worse) cannot compete with 8 hrs A DAY of modernistic thinking and the protestantization of catholic living.  New rome is an occasion of sin to one's faith!  Especially their schools!

    Online Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 41859
    • Reputation: +23917/-4344
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Babies at daily Mass
    « Reply #4 on: August 02, 2017, 10:16:08 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • In a similar situation, I might stay out in the vestibule or outside entirely (weather permitting) and then enter the church at Communion time to receive.  You wouldn't have attended the entire Mass, but you could still receive Holy Communion.  And, of course, I echo the concerns that FSSP priests may or may not be validly ordained.  I would probably opt for an Eastern Rite if I could find one.


    Offline Ascetik

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 581
    • Reputation: +420/-68
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Babies at daily Mass
    « Reply #5 on: August 02, 2017, 10:24:39 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!2
  • What is this a sedevacantist echo chamber?

    Have any of you actually gone to an FSSP parish more than a few times? I doubt it.

    All their priests are ordained in the traditional rite, so what are you going on about?

    Offline Pax Vobis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 10304
    • Reputation: +6214/-1742
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Babies at daily Mass
    « Reply #6 on: August 02, 2017, 11:19:42 AM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • How do you know for certain that all FSSP priests are validly ordained?  Were you at each one's ordination?  Are you trained enough to know if something in the ceremony is "off"?  How do you know the ordination wasn't a 'hybrid' of the old/new, with just 'smells and bells' of tradition?

    Even IF the FSSP priests are valid, were they properly trained in the seminary?  How can any of us know?  Do they say the 1962 missal, strictly and follow all the rubrics exactly?  Who taught them to do so - novus ordo priests?  Ha ha!  That's like saying a first year med student could teach someone how to do heart surgery.  The rubrics require precision and attention to detail - something the novus ordo neither requires nor encourages.

    Thirdly, which host are you receiving at mass?  The one from the novus ordo, or the one from the current mass?  They are all stored in the same tabernacle.  The FSSP accepts the novus ordo, so would they spend any time separating the hosts from one another?  Of course not.  To them, each host is the same.  Odds are high that you are receiving an unconsecrated piece of bread from the sacrilegious 'mass'.

    Then, there is the problem of the public scandal that the priest and you are providing to those who go to that church.  By attending/saying an indult mass, you implicity accept that
    1) the latin mass is NOT the ordinary form of mass, but has been replaced by the novus ordo
    2) that the novus ordo is valid, as a mass (highly doubtful, per Cardinal Ottaviani) and a sacrament (communion could be valid, who knows?  It also could not be),
    3) that the novus ordo is the same rite as the TLM (as pope benedict argued in his motu, they are "two usages of the same rite")'
    4) that the novus ordo is acceptable to God, which it cannot be because it sinfully violates the legal and moral commands of Quo Primum.

    The Indult is very problematic, both morally and legally.  If you allow God's Divine Providence to be your guide, and you put your trust in Him, and LEAVE the indult, He will bless you.  If not, you are putting yourself in harm's way, and are compromising your Faith, even slightly, which we cannot do.

    Offline Mammavera

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 2
    • Reputation: +3/-2
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Babies at daily Mass
    « Reply #7 on: August 02, 2017, 11:31:15 AM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!0
  • Thanks to everyone for replying, but I started this thread to discuss bringing young children to Mass, not the FSSP.


    Offline graceseeker

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1305
    • Reputation: +130/-446
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Babies at daily Mass
    « Reply #8 on: August 02, 2017, 11:38:47 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!3

  • Thanks to everyone for replying, but I started this thread to discuss bringing young children to Mass, not the FSSP.
    yeh, i was thinking the same thing. I hate "disturbing" people in any way but I have been accused of "disturbing" people just by  walking, say to the restroom or outside the sanctuary for some reason. I think it is very rude and un=Christian to treat people like that. I had to explain to a priest once that, you know, people DO have issues/concerns/needs that must be taken care of wehther they are at Mass or not. If you drank a lot of water before going to Mass, obviously you may have to go to the restroom during Mass, thereby "disturbing" people. Some people just have malice in their heart and/or want to feel morally superior to others so they claim to be disturbed. If a crying baby causes you to stop focusing on Jesus, maybe you don't have such a good thing w/ Jesus? Do ya think?

    ??

    that is MY perspective

    Offline Ascetik

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 581
    • Reputation: +420/-68
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Babies at daily Mass
    « Reply #9 on: August 02, 2017, 12:35:44 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!2
  • How do you know for certain that all FSSP priests are validly ordained?  Were you at each one's ordination?  Are you trained enough to know if something in the ceremony is "off"?  How do you know the ordination wasn't a 'hybrid' of the old/new, with just 'smells and bells' of tradition?

    Even IF the FSSP priests are valid, were they properly trained in the seminary?  How can any of us know?  Do they say the 1962 missal, strictly and follow all the rubrics exactly?  Who taught them to do so - novus ordo priests?  Ha ha!  That's like saying a first year med student could teach someone how to do heart surgery.  The rubrics require precision and attention to detail - something the novus ordo neither requires nor encourages.

    Thirdly, which host are you receiving at mass?  The one from the novus ordo, or the one from the current mass?  They are all stored in the same tabernacle.  The FSSP accepts the novus ordo, so would they spend any time separating the hosts from one another?  Of course not.  To them, each host is the same.  Odds are high that you are receiving an unconsecrated piece of bread from the sacrilegious 'mass'.

    Then, there is the problem of the public scandal that the priest and you are providing to those who go to that church.  By attending/saying an indult mass, you implicity accept that
    1) the latin mass is NOT the ordinary form of mass, but has been replaced by the novus ordo
    2) that the novus ordo is valid, as a mass (highly doubtful, per Cardinal Ottaviani) and a sacrament (communion could be valid, who knows?  It also could not be),
    3) that the novus ordo is the same rite as the TLM (as pope benedict argued in his motu, they are "two usages of the same rite")'
    4) that the novus ordo is acceptable to God, which it cannot be because it sinfully violates the legal and moral commands of Quo Primum.

    The Indult is very problematic, both morally and legally.  If you allow God's Divine Providence to be your guide, and you put your trust in Him, and LEAVE the indult, He will bless you.  If not, you are putting yourself in harm's way, and are compromising your Faith, even slightly, which we cannot do.
    As a former FSSP seminarian, I can answer all these questions with certitude.

    How do you know they're not? Are you God? Have you ever seen ordinations by any of the Ecclesia Dei orders? They all use the old books, the exact same rites and the same as the SSPX and every other traditional order in the Church uses. If you think they do otherwise, you are very ignorant of how they operate and are assuming a lot. You don't have to agree with "Indult" orders and the way they were established, but stop spreading disinformation which simply isn't true.

    As regards to seminary formation, since I was there, and knew pretty much every seminarian and priest, I can assure you that they taught the Catholic faith, Thomism, Catechism of the Council of Trent, the Syllabus, 6 years of Latin, etc etc etc. It is a traditional seminary, not a Novus Ordo one. I have seen probably over 30 FSSP priests celebrate mass, and not one of them has violated the rubrics from what I can tall, not even once, so please spare me your diatribe which is completely unfounded.

    The FSSP doesn't share Novus Ordo churches any longer than I'm aware of. They did have a few shared parishes at one time (many years ago when they first started) but they do not any longer that I'm aware of. You are also assuming every Novus Ordo is invalid, which it isn't, even the SSPX doesn't believe that.

    1. There is no "official" stance from the FSSP regarding ordinary vs extraordinary form, that was simply Benedict XVI's opinion. No one is bound to it under pain of sin. I know plenty of FSSP priests who disagree with the distinction.
    2. Even the SSPX accepts the new mass can be valid. Even Fr. Hesse. You are taking it to an extreme.
    3. The FSSP doesn't take any official stance on that. Pretty much every FSSP priest I've ever met doesn't make that distinction, they just refer to the Novus Ordo as the Novus Ordo and the traditional mass as the traditional mass. You should read some of Fr. Ripperger's Latin Mass Magazine articles on the subject such as The Merit of a Mass. Stop assuming things about people.
    4. The FSSP takes no official stance on this that I'm aware of.

    I'm not saying I agree that an Indult should even exist, but I have never once experienced my faith being compromised at the FSSP, never. You're doing souls a great injustice by telling them to avoid the traditional sacraments and good priests. God has blessed and continues to bless the FSSP, although it was born in imperfect circuмstances; it is nonetheless bearing much fruit and many graces, to say people should avoid it shows you really know nothing about the formation of priests in the FSSP and how they are formed. I would urge you to have a little more charity towards those who desire to grow in holiness in an indult parish. Not everyone has access to the SSPX, not everyone is convinced by the arguments of the SSPX. I personally do not really care either way, I think both organizations do the work of God.

    Offline Miseremini

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3750
    • Reputation: +2793/-238
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Babies at daily Mass
    « Reply #10 on: August 02, 2017, 12:43:22 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • It's wonderful that you feel drawn to the Holy Sacrifice.

    Daily Mass and especially daily Communion has become popular only since Vat II
    Before that it was VERY RARE (perhaps if someone was making a novena).  Perhaps Carmelites practiced this but even our teaching nuns didn't go to daily Communion. (my brother served at the 6AM Mass in the convent so knew this was not the norm)

    On Sundays when all 4 Masses were packed to standing room only, it was rare to see more than 1/4 of the congregation receiving.

    In the 1850's, St. Jean Vianney started encouraging people to receive every Sunday.  He actually approached certain people, not all, to start.  He told them to PREPARE on Thurs, Fri. and Sat.  receive on Sunday and make a thanksgiving on Mon. Tues and Wed.
    He stressed it was THAT IMPORTANT to receive WORTHILY!

    Sadly today people receive like It's take out. (I'm not accusing you).
    That being said, I know as a mother and grandmother that the care of children make it almost impossible to prepare to receive worthily on a daily basis.

    If you observe the daily attendees you will probably note they are older.  They have the time to attend daily as they have been relieved of their parental duties.

    As for your daughter, if she is fussy, it is better to stay home till she is of the age where she understands she must behave in the House of God,  otherwise she will  conclude that even in church it's all about her.  In my youth it was rare to see a child under 2 even at Sunday Mass. (That's why in beautiful older churches you'll never find a "crying room")

    At the Pius X chapel you attend the people help because your daughter is disruptive and perhaps they've been through it and have found a ways to overcome it.

    People go to Mass because they need God.  We must do everything within our power not to disturb their conversation with God.  And how can you converse with God reverently  if your attention is constantly drawn to your baby?  We're told the surest way to please God is to fulfill our duties to our station in life.  

    Maybe for the time being staying home and making Spiritual Communions is the best solution.  Our Lord told one of the saints that making a Spiritual Communion every 15 minutes was not too often.

    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]



    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 16436
    • Reputation: +4863/-1803
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Babies at daily Mass
    « Reply #11 on: August 02, 2017, 01:35:05 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • I think it is great that you bring your baby to daily Mass.  Everyone should bring their babies and children to daily Mass.  What a blessing.  Yes, start them young.  Being it is summertime, Some  of the older people should be bringing their grandchildren to daily Mass with them. We go to Mass to be with God.  Don't pay attention anyone.  
    We aren't FSSP, SSPX etc. 

    We are Catholics!  



    ( We wish we had a baby I could to take Mass and raise the child as a true Catholic). 


    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline Pax Vobis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 10304
    • Reputation: +6214/-1742
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Babies at daily Mass
    « Reply #12 on: August 02, 2017, 01:45:11 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote
    As a former FSSP seminarian, I can answer all these questions with certitude.

    How do you know they're not? Are you God? Have you ever seen ordinations by any of the Ecclesia Dei orders? They all use the old books, the exact same rites and the same as the SSPX and every other traditional order in the Church uses. If you think they do otherwise, you are very ignorant of how they operate and are assuming a lot. You don't have to agree with "Indult" orders and the way they were established, but stop spreading disinformation which simply isn't true.

    As regards to seminary formation, since I was there, and knew pretty much every seminarian and priest, I can assure you that they taught the Catholic faith, Thomism, Catechism of the Council of Trent, the Syllabus, 6 years of Latin, etc etc etc. It is a traditional seminary, not a Novus Ordo one. I have seen probably over 30 FSSP priests celebrate mass, and not one of them has violated the rubrics from what I can tall, not even once, so please spare me your diatribe which is completely unfounded.

    The FSSP doesn't share Novus Ordo churches any longer than I'm aware of. They did have a few shared parishes at one time (many years ago when they first started) but they do not any longer that I'm aware of. You are also assuming every Novus Ordo is invalid, which it isn't, even the SSPX doesn't believe that.

    1. There is no "official" stance from the FSSP regarding ordinary vs extraordinary form, that was simply Benedict XVI's opinion. No one is bound to it under pain of sin. I know plenty of FSSP priests who disagree with the distinction.
    2. Even the SSPX accepts the new mass can be valid. Even Fr. Hesse. You are taking it to an extreme.
    3. The FSSP doesn't take any official stance on that. Pretty much every FSSP priest I've ever met doesn't make that distinction, they just refer to the Novus Ordo as the Novus Ordo and the traditional mass as the traditional mass. You should read some of Fr. Ripperger's Latin Mass Magazine articles on the subject such as The Merit of a Mass. Stop assuming things about people.
    4. The FSSP takes no official stance on this that I'm aware of.

    I'm not saying I agree that an Indult should even exist, but I have never once experienced my faith being compromised at the FSSP, never. You're doing souls a great injustice by telling them to avoid the traditional sacraments and good priests. God has blessed and continues to bless the FSSP, although it was born in imperfect circuмstances; it is nonetheless bearing much fruit and many graces, to say people should avoid it shows you really know nothing about the formation of priests in the FSSP and how they are formed. I would urge you to have a little more charity towards those who desire to grow in holiness in an indult parish. Not everyone has access to the SSPX, not everyone is convinced by the arguments of the SSPX. I personally do not really care either way, I think both organizations do the work of God.
    Did you even read what the FSSP stands for before you entered their seminary?!  I'm not making "unfounded" accusations.  Per the FSSP website, their founding docuмents say they accept the "5 May 1988 Protocol" which was originally offered to the SSPX but which changed their mind.  This protocol says that:

    1.  They promise to accept the pope as head of the church.
    2.  They accept the "doctrine" contained in V2's 'Lumen Gentium', article 25, which says, among other things (it's a bit long winded):
    In matters of faith and morals, the bishops speak in the name of Christ and the faithful are to accept their teaching and adhere to it with a religious assent. This religious submission of mind and will must be shown in a special way to the authentic magisterium of the Roman Pontiff, even when he is not speaking ex cathedra; that is, it must be shown in such a way that his supreme magisterium is acknowledged with reverence, the judgments made by him are sincerely adhered to, according to his manifest mind and will. His mind and will in the matter may be known either from the character of the docuмents, from his frequent repetition of the same doctrine, or from his manner of speaking.


    Problem:  The idea of 'religious submission' is vague and novel.  Something is either catholic or not.  We must believe it or not.  V2 wants to make the pope a theological dictator who can change things as he sees fit, and we catholics must accept our 'sheeple-ness' in false meekness and blind obedience.  This is the reason that most catholics accept the heretical 'Amoris Laetitia" docuмent.  If you want to read a critique, see this article:  https://akacatholic.com/lumen-gentium-25/

    3.  They promise to avoid all "polemics" (i.e. no debating or disputing) when it comes to "certain points taught by V2 or concerning later reforms of the liturgy and law, which seem to us able to be reconciled with the Tradition only with difficulty."

    Problem:  You cannot speak out against V2's errors or the immoral and sacrilegious aspects of the novus ordo.  Basically, you must keep quiet and accept them with 'religious submission'.

    4.  They recognize the validity of the mass and sacraments celebrated with the intention of 'doing what the church does' and according to the rites promulgated by Paul VI and JPII.

    Problem:  So, as plain as day, it says that they publicly accept the new mass and new sacraments.  Anyone who attends their masses or seminaries agrees to these conditions as well.  The problem is that Cardinal Ottaviani and his fellow theologians, who studied the new mass in the 60s, said that the new mass' intention no longer is sufficient to "do what the church intends" because the theology of the new mass is disordered and new.  Therefore, we can say that the new mass "intends" something different than what is intended by the True Mass, because the new mass was created for a new church, a new theology, and a nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr, which is contrary to Christ's True Church.

    5.  They respect the common discipline of the church and ecclesiastical laws, especially in the code of canon law issued by JPII.

    Problem:  There are many problems with the new code of canon law, but this is minimal compared to V2 and new mass.

    www.fssp.org/en/protoc5mai.htm

    Summary:  The FSSP accepts V2 and the new mass, without question, and in a public manner, and anyone who attends their masses does so as well.  There's no excuse for ignorance on the matter.  New-rome gave them what they wanted, which is the mass, but it required them to compromise their Faith in order to get it.  This type of compromise does not lend one to an easy road to heaven, for your masters are wolves in sheep's clothing...

    Offline MyrnaM

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6273
    • Reputation: +3628/-347
    • Gender: Female
      • Myforever.blog/blog
    Re: Babies at daily Mass
    « Reply #13 on: August 02, 2017, 03:09:26 PM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!0
  • I have never heard a priest say to stay home because you have a baby.

    In our chapel, parents with small children are asked to sit in the back, while the adults with no disturbing children can sit anywhere except the back where there is a sign "reserved for parents with small children".

    One grandmother with no little ones complained to me about a month ago about the children, and she sits in the back with them, within one of the last three pews.  I asked her why she sits back there if the children bother her so much, and she told me it was because if she coughs.
     
    We do have a cry room and Father encourages the parents when their child begins to cry or scream they should get up and go to the cry room ASAP.  

    I am sure you sit in the back of the Church especially if you allow her to crawl a bit, in the front of the Church it would be distracting.  

     
    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

    My new blog @ https://myforever.blog/blog/

    Offline RoughAshlar

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 205
    • Reputation: +153/-52
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Babies at daily Mass
    « Reply #14 on: August 02, 2017, 10:22:50 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • Matthew 19:14

    But Jesus said to them: Suffer the little children, and forbid them not to come to me: for the kingdom of heaven is for such.