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Author Topic: Electrical vehicles are dumb if power grids are in danger of blackouts  (Read 640 times)

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Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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May God bless you and keep you

Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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Re: Electrical vehicles are dumb if power grids are in danger of blackouts
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2023, 10:53:10 AM »
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  • Electric bikes, cars , trucks, cell phones, electric beds, electric couches, electric buses, computers in schools, universities, smoke alarms, tv, refrigerators, microwave, stoves, etc.   There is more electric environmental waste now than ever before.   The only people who are environmentally friendly are people living off the grid.   

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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Electrical vehicles are dumb if power grids are in danger of blackouts
    « Reply #2 on: September 07, 2023, 11:34:53 AM »
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  • They're dumb for many reasons.  I really like their ability to accelerate from 0-60 in the blink of an eye, and some other features, but ...

    1) nearly all electricity is generated from fossil fuels anyway, so what's the difference?  You're probably losing efficiency that way as it the electricity has to be transmitted, etc.

    2) the range on these vehicles is not far enough.  Even though it's gotten better, you're definitely not going to drive farther than, say, between Cleveland and Chicago, on your best day.  Charging stations are few and far between, and they're usually backed up with long lines.  Good luck with that.  AND it takes a fair bit of time to charge a vehicle ... not like just filling up your gas tank.

    3) safety issues where batteries catch on fire

    4) computer glitches where cars can freeze up for no reason and require a "reboot" to get working again, if not worse, with some stories of people locked in their cars and unable to get out

    5) usually don't work in adverse temperatures, if it's too cold or too hot

    6) currently using immoral slave labor to mine for the cobalt and lithium required to build them (some Chinese company has developed a sodium ion battery that's just as good and won't require cobalt / lithium)

    7) concern about the government being able to hack in and remotely just turn off your car, or ration how far you can drive, although most petroleum-based cars also have lots of those electronics in them now as well

    This is all smoke and mirrors to 1) dovetail with their bogus environmental agenda (meant for control and profit) and 2) to be able to control vehicles (and of course track them easily)

    I wouldn't mind some of the newer engines that came out where they can use EITHER electricity OR gas OR both (in hybrid mode, where your battery charges while you drive, and that makes sense).

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Electrical vehicles are dumb if power grids are in danger of blackouts
    « Reply #3 on: September 07, 2023, 12:30:17 PM »
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    "This is what happens when it is 97 degrees outside at ~8 pm," Michael Webber, a professor in UT Austin’s Department of Mechanical Engineering tweeted. "Demand at 8 pm this year is as high as our 5 pm peaks last year. Insane."


    True.

    It would be great if this epic heat/drought would subside. I'd be happy with highs in the low 90's at this point.

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    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Electrical vehicles are dumb if power grids are in danger of blackouts
    « Reply #4 on: September 07, 2023, 12:47:57 PM »
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  • The technology just isn’t good enough for electric everything!  Imagine, for example, if landscapers, construction equipment, farming vehicles had to run on electric!  Sure, make hybrid cars and flex machinery, but it’s too early to rely on electric tractor trailers, freight trains, or passenger jets!  Plus, the electric has to be manufactured from somewhere, not solely wind and solar generation.  In the meantime, look for the cleaner types and operation of fossil fuels.


    Offline moneil

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    Re: Electrical vehicles are dumb if power grids are in danger of blackouts
    « Reply #5 on: September 07, 2023, 02:03:10 PM »
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  • They're dumb for many reasons.  I really like their ability to accelerate from 0-60 in the blink of an eye, and some other features, but ...

    1) nearly all electricity is generated from fossil fuels anyway, so what's the difference?  You're probably losing efficiency that way as it the electricity has to be transmitted, etc.
    Except for the "hee-bie-jee-bie" conspiracy stuff at the end I agree with most of what Ladislaus posted, except that point #1 needs more context.

    It is true that currently the majority of electrical generation in the U.S. is from fossil fuels (40% natural gas, 19% coal), but a 60% margin is hardly "nearly all" https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=48896 .

    I confess that my perspective is skewed by living in Washington in the pacific northwest, where 64.4% of our electricity is hydroelectric https://www.statista.com/statistics/1287668/washington-electricity-generation-share-by-source/, we generate 30% more electricity than we consume (which is exported to other states), and have the second lowest cost per KwH in the nation https://www.electricrate.com/electricity-rates-by-state/#:~:text=Residential%20Electric%20Rates%20in%202023%20%20%20,%20%20%24104.95%20%2047%20more%20rows%20.  While we are not immune to the effects of high winds (trees falling on power lines), unlike Texas we have a very reliable electrical grid, the Bonneville Power Administration (thank you Franklin Delano Roosevelt and the REA).

    Battery storage technology still has a long ways to go, and things like "range", "charging time", "adverse temperatures", and "immoral slave labor" also apply to anyone who owns a cordless drill or a laptop.

    Offline trad123

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    Re: Electrical vehicles are dumb if power grids are in danger of blackouts
    « Reply #6 on: September 07, 2023, 02:08:22 PM »
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  • Texas paid bitcoin miner Riot $31.7 million to shut down during heat wave in August

    https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/06/texas-paid-bitcoin-miner-riot-31point7-million-to-shut-down-in-august.html



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    Riot said on Wednesday that it earned $31.7 million in energy credits last month from Texas power grid operator ERCOT. The company generated the credits by voluntarily curtailing its energy consumption during a record-breaking heatwave.

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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Electrical vehicles are dumb if power grids are in danger of blackouts
    « Reply #7 on: September 07, 2023, 02:57:39 PM »
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  • Battery storage technology still has a long ways to go, and things like "range", "charging time", "adverse temperatures", and "immoral slave labor" also apply to anyone who owns a cordless drill or a laptop.


    Yes, but long story short, a rechargeable battery powered drill is PRACTICAL. A battery-powered car is barely so.

    I can charge a lithium-ion battery for a short time and use my drill or impact for hours. Nice and lightweight, no fumes, no cords. 

    I have acreage, so a power outlet is not always handy. Cordless is highly practical. And who wants a gas engine-powered drill? Not practical.

    For a vehicle, however, gas-powered or diesel-powered is much more ideal than battery powered. Put in a few gallons and you're done. Drive for hundreds of miles. No heavy, costly battery storage, etc.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Electrical vehicles are dumb if power grids are in danger of blackouts
    « Reply #8 on: September 07, 2023, 03:22:50 PM »
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  • Yes, but long story short, a rechargeable battery powered drill is PRACTICAL. A battery-powered car is barely so.

    I can charge a lithium-ion battery for a short time and use my drill or impact for hours. Nice and lightweight, no fumes, no cords.

    I have acreage, so a power outlet is not always handy. Cordless is highly practical. And who wants a gas engine-powered drill? Not practical.

    For a vehicle, however, gas-powered or diesel-powered is much more ideal than battery powered. Put in a few gallons and you're done. Drive for hundreds of miles. No heavy, costly battery storage, etc.

    Yes, I've replaced all my home tools with battery powered as they've broken down.

    Lawn Mower:  I used to smell like gasoline, and it often struggled to start.  First use every season I generally had to take the carb apart, and yes I would use gas stabilizer or drain it during storage.  Have to buy gas, store enough but not too much (as it'll go bad) etc., check the oil check and maintain the carb, filters, spark plug, etc.  With the Lithium battery one, I just snap in a battery and push the button, and off I go.  I do have to replace the blade every 2-3 years, but that's pretty easy to do and you don't do it that often, and the same applies to the gas version.  Gas engine is also very loud, but with this battery one, I can mow the grass at 6AM in the summer (when it's light out) and not wake people up.

    I also have a battery snow thrower.  I haven't had one for quite a few years because, well, it was nearly impossible to start the darn things on cold morning (and it's usually cold when it snows), and winters haven't been too bad to get by without a shovel.  But one time we got buried with like 4 feet of snow, and I would have busted up my back and/or had a heart attack with the 20 hours of shoveling deep, wet snow that it would have required to keep up.  I was skeptical about a battery snow thrower, but this thing was awesome, cut through half-frozen-into-ice junk and slush and everything in between, and threw it a good distance.  AND no worries about it not starting.  Put in the battery, push the button, and 100% success rate the first time.  Some winters when the neighbors were trying to start their snow throwers for just 2-3 inches of snow, I was done with my driveway using a shovel before they got theirs to start up.

    Same goes with weed eater, edger, chain saw, pole saw, hedge trimmer, leaf blower.  All are great, and I get the same manufactuerer line, so I just need a couple batteries that I swap around among them all.  Chain Saw has all the power I need too ... that if I needed to cut down something it couldn't handle, I'd call a professional in anyway lest I destroy my house.  I've also known people who had plug-in electrics with these types of tools and beside the very limited range, I've also known people who cut into the power cord by mistake.

    Also, for the smaller hand tools, you can't beat not having to plug them in, for power drills / screw drivers, sanders, etc. ... it's great not to have to plug them in.

    I also have a battery powered air pump to inflate tires (works like a charm and you don't have to plug it in somewhere), and a shop vac.

    One thing that just isn't up to par with gas (yet) are power washers.  None of them can push out water with the necessary pressure for the tough jobs.  Last time I checked, and maybe it's changed the past couple years, best battery ones could do like 900PSI, whereas the gas ones could do 3200-3500 easy.  Even the plug-in electrics are in the mid 2000s for most models, and I'm not sure I'd want to mix a plug-in electric with water.  Some of the tools with the larger batteries can get heavy, and both the shop vac and the leaf blower seem to be a bit underpowered, but good enough for my needs.

    So, these tools are very practical, and not all that expensive if you just swap around the batteries.  I think I have like 2 80V batteries, 1 40V, and 2 24V ... and that will work all these tools.  I rarely use the tools at the same time, e.g. lawn mower and snow thrower are mutually exclusive.  So just a handful of batteries suffices for all these.

    Offline Thed0ctor

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    Re: Electrical vehicles are dumb if power grids are in danger of blackouts
    « Reply #9 on: September 07, 2023, 05:36:26 PM »
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  • Yes, but long story short, a rechargeable battery powered drill is PRACTICAL. A battery-powered car is barely so.

    I can charge a lithium-ion battery for a short time and use my drill or impact for hours. Nice and lightweight, no fumes, no cords.

    I have acreage, so a power outlet is not always handy. Cordless is highly practical. And who wants a gas engine-powered drill? Not practical.

    For a vehicle, however, gas-powered or diesel-powered is much more ideal than battery powered. Put in a few gallons and you're done. Drive for hundreds of miles. No heavy, costly battery storage, etc.
    I think it may depend on where you live and how much traveling you do. We used to have a hybrid electric car and when we did we literally never had to go to the gas station. Just plugged our car in at night and we were good to go. Saved us a trip. Now we go once or twice a month or so. We plan on getting the hybrid electric version of the minivan we have now to get the same convenience.

    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Electrical vehicles are dumb if power grids are in danger of blackouts
    « Reply #10 on: September 07, 2023, 10:23:16 PM »
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  • Lawn Mower: 
    Ever thought about using a scythe?