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Author Topic: Are There Novus Ordo Saints?  (Read 4185 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Are There Novus Ordo Saints?
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2022, 06:03:27 PM »
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    • Quote from: Nadir on July 07, 2022, 05:54:44 PM
    You be the judge.

    No, only the Church can judge.  I opine that someone who was an active participant in the new false religion, despite whatever personal virtue he might have, is ineligible for canonization.

    When the smoke clears, history will not look favorably upon these Conciliarists ... putting them in the same category as those who offered grains of incense to the emperor.  They will certainly not be elevated to the honors of the altar to serve as examples for the faithful.
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    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Are There Novus Ordo Saints?
    « Reply #16 on: July 07, 2022, 08:49:29 PM »
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    • Involvement in politics has not been a reason to deny sainthood.

    As King Henry's remarked about St Thomas a Becket, "Will no one rid me of this troublesome Priest?”

    We don't know what his stand was on conciliarism, or even if he had a stand. He probably was too engrossed in events in his parish in Poland to go into the topic, unlike we armchair theorists, who have the luxury of opining.

    I'd like to find out more about him before I would doubt Bl. Jerzy's eligibility for canonisation..

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    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Are There Novus Ordo Saints?
    « Reply #17 on: July 09, 2022, 07:30:27 PM »
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    • Then there’s Blessed Archbishop Vasyl Velikovsky, beatified by JP2.

    https://www.kolbecenter.org/kolbe-report-7-17-21/

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    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Are There Novus Ordo Saints?
    « Reply #18 on: July 09, 2022, 08:38:47 PM »
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    • Quote from: Nadir on July 09, 2022, 07:30:27 PM
    Then there’s Blessed Archbishop Vasyl Velikovsky, beatified by JP2.

    https://www.kolbecenter.org/kolbe-report-7-17-21/
    If he is a saint--he is absolutely not a martyr--beatification by Wojtyla means absolutely nothing.  Wojtyla's pronouncements has as much moral authority as the Dalai Lama and that might be calumny against the Dalai Lama!   

    If the article is accurate, he truly suffered much for the Catholic Church and Faith prior to the corruption of almost the entire hierarchy at Vatican 2.  But the article provides no information as to this man's faith upon his death in 1973.  The state of his soul at the moment of death is what determines whether he is a saint in heaven.
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    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Are There Novus Ordo Saints?
    « Reply #19 on: July 09, 2022, 11:45:12 PM »
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    • Yes, Hugh Owen makes the comment:
    “Overcome by the tortures and death causing drugs he received while in prison, he died a martyr's death on June 30, 1973.” And in today’s email Hugh refers to his white martyrdom. But we are not discussing martyrdom but sainthood. So that is not an issue here. 

    That JP2 beatified him does not cast a bad light on his eligiblity, although one should doubt or at least investigate his actions. After all, having bad popes, or anti-popes, or heretics, does not mean that God does not send us saints to emulate and invoke, and to inspire or guide us.

    Here is an excerpt from that email.

    I am writing this newsletter on July 5, the 49th anniversary of the burial of the great Ukrainian Catholic Blessed Archbishop Vasyl Velychkovsky, in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, in 1973. I am recalling what we wrote about Blessed Vasyl in a previous newsletter now because part of his white martyrdom was to be subjected to forced injections with drugs intended to break down his resistance to interrogation so that he would betray the members of his underground flock to his communist captors. We urgently need to invoke Blessed Vasyl now, as a special intercessor against the forced injection of children with experimental COVID shots, here in the United States and in other countries around the world. 

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    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
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    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Are There Novus Ordo Saints?
    « Reply #20 on: July 10, 2022, 05:19:01 AM »
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    • I reiterate:

    If the article is accurate, he truly suffered much for the Catholic Church and Faith prior to the corruption of almost the entire hierarchy at Vatican 2.  But the article provides no information as to this man's faith upon his death in 1973.  The state of his soul at the moment of death is what determines whether he is a saint in heaven.

    While I don't believe mere membership in the Novus Ordo sect is enough to deprive one of the Beatific Vision, I am unwilling to say that someone who heroically defended the Faith and the Church prior to Vatican 2 did not throw all of that out the window after the Council since that happened all over the world.
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Are There Novus Ordo Saints?
    « Reply #21 on: July 10, 2022, 06:02:44 AM »
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    • Quote from: Nadir on July 09, 2022, 11:45:12 PM

    That JP2 beatified him does not cast a bad light on his eligiblity, although one should doubt or at least investigate his actions. After all, having bad popes, or anti-popes, or heretics, does not mean that God does not send us saints to emulate and invoke, and to inspire or guide us.

    I agree with TKGS.  We don't know whether this man [still] professed the Catholic Faith at the time of his death. 

    Also, beatification doesn't matter because beatifications are not infallible [even if JPII was a true pope].  Canonizations [by true popes] are when we know that God "sent us saints to emulate and invoke, and to inspire or guide us." 
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Are There Novus Ordo Saints?
    « Reply #22 on: July 11, 2022, 01:24:35 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on July 07, 2022, 06:03:27 PM
    No, only the Church can judge.  
    That's heresy in the R&R camp.  The ultimate judge is the SSPX!!!:mad:
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