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Author Topic: Are protestant prayers offensive to Our Lord?  (Read 9119 times)

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Are protestant prayers offensive to Our Lord?
« Reply #40 on: August 04, 2012, 08:22:09 PM »
Quote from: Sigismund
Quote from: theology101
I worked the sound board at this evangelical church and i noticed something. They do lik half an hour of 'praise and worship' music, and after a few months i noticed a pattern. They start hard, with a modern rock, poppy song that gets everyone clapping. Then the next song is slower and gets everyone swaying. Then two more rock type songs. The first gets them clapping again, and the second is even louder and harder and by the end they are jumping up and down. Then suddenly back to slow, sad, swaying. After working them into a frenzy, suddenly bring them down. Many start weeping. Then at the end of that song they extend it with long, solemn electric keyboard chords, while the people sway and pray with their eyes closed. The preacher keeps them going, softly repeating yes Jesus, yes Jesus over and over. Then come out the collection plates!

It is a mind game. These people know how to manipulate others very well, and yeah they can turn it on and off just like that because even the most 'faithful' of them know, deep down inside, that they are full of it. It is a religion full of actors and shysters.


That is really fascinating!


Yep, and if you happen to be a stockholder in the Peoples Bankski of Bosnia Herzogovina, you will find the profits fascinatring, too!  This is the same psyops technique that built Medjugoogoo-dom into a billion dollar cash cow.

Are protestant prayers offensive to Our Lord?
« Reply #41 on: August 05, 2012, 01:59:01 AM »
Whenever our extended family gets together (which is pretty rare) someone is
designated as the person to say grace before meals. Although we are all Catholic,
most members are exclusively new order, and have no experience with the
Canonized Traditional Latin Mass and Sacraments. Therefore, they all expect to
hear something closer to a Protestant "Thanksgiving Before Meals."

Catholics traditionally do not "give thanks" before meals. They give thanks, rather,
AFTER meals. Before meals, Catholics traditionally ask for God's blessing on:

1) the food, for the purpose of "removing the food from the dominion of the evil
one." This effectively cancels out any pagan dedication or curse that anyone could
have attached to the food along the way of its production in the marketplace. In
saner times it was referred to as "meat sacrificed to idols." Meat can mean
vegetables, grains or dairy products as well as animal meats.

2) ourselves, that is, we who are about to eat the food.

Therefore, when one of us who says the blessing simply uses the standard short
form, "Bless us, o Lord, and these Thy gifts, ..." members of the family tend to
murmur and grumble that that was not sufficient. They are accustomed, as I said,
a more Protestant approach, which, I guess, is being promoted by their local
pastors, otherwise, why would they be so convinced it's such a good idea?

Lest anyone misunderstand, it is the Catholic way to focus primarily on the
spiritual aspect of prayer, that is, with our own particular end in mind. It is only
this short time on earth that we have to prepare our souls for their eternal
destiny, whatever that is, but we have the opportunity now to do something about
it, whereas if we wait till "later," like Scarlet O'Hara in Gone with the Wind, we
could find ourselves one day having run out of time, at which point it will have
been too late to accomplish what we can if we start now.  

It is the Protestant way to think only of temporal things in prayer and to make
demands on God to give us what we want. Therefore, in a family meal setting
they might thank God for the privilege of us all being here together today to have
this time and this meal, and for our health and prosperous employment, and our
new Lexus or whatever. These are all temporal, transitory, superficial and in a
large way UNIMPORTANT things in regards to our eternal salvation, for "What
does it profit a man to gain the whole world and to lose his soul in eternity?"

Please take note of the words below, "May the King of eternal glory make us
partakers in His heavenly meal." And elsewhere: "May the Lord grant to us, who
do good works, heavenly rewards instead of earthly reward, and eternal rewards
instead of temporal rewards."



Anyway, here are the prayers that are traditionally Catholic blessings for meals,
in Latin and in English. At the end, I will offer some suggestions for members to
consider to use at family gatherings to give them all something to think about....



Latin grace before meals:

 Benedic, Domine, nos et haec tua dona, quae de  
tua largitate sumus sumpturi.  Per Christum Dominum nostrum.  
R.  Amen.  



English translation:

Bless us, O Lord, and these Thy gifts, which we  
are about to receive from Thy bounty.  Through Christ Our Lord.  
R. Amen.  




In Larger Context:



BENEDICTIONES MENSAE  

ANTE PRANDIUM  
 
The Priest:  Benedicite.  
All:  Benedicite.  
The Priest:  Oculi omnium  
And all continue:  in te sperant, Domine, et tu das illis escam in  
tempore opportuno.  Aperis tu manum tuam, et imples omne animal in  
benedictione.  Gloria Patri, et Filio, et Spiritui Sancto.  Sicut erat  
in principio, et nunc, et semper, et in saecula saeulorum.  Amen.  
Kyrie eleison.  Christe eleison.  Kyrie eleison.  
Pater noster... [continue in silence up to:]  
V. Et ne nos inducas in tentationem.  
R. Sed libera nos a malo.  
The Priest then says:  Benedic, Domine, nos et haec tua dona, quae de  
tua largitate sumus sumpturi.  Per Christum Dominum nostrum.  
R. Amen.  

Then the Priest says:  Iube, Domine, benedicere.  
The Priest:  Mensae caelestis participes faciat nos Rex aeternae  
gloriae.  
R. Amen.  
 

BLESSINGS FOR MEALS

BEFORE DINNER
 
The Priest:  May God bless you.  
All:  May God bless you.  
The Priest:  The eyes of all  
And all continue:  hope in Thee, Lord, and Thou givest them food at a  
seasonable time.  Thou openest Thy hand, and Thou fillest every living thing  
with blessing.  Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy  
Ghost, as it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without    
end.  Amen.  
Lord, have mercy.  Christ, have mercy.  Lord, have mercy.  
Our Father... [continue in silence up to:]  
V. And lead us not into temptation.  
R. But deliver us from evil.  
The Priest then says:  Bless us, O Lord, and these Thy gifts, which we  
are about to receive from Thy bounty.  Through Christ Our Lord.  
R. Amen.  

Then the Priest says:  Lord, we ask your blessing.  
The Priest:  May the King of eternal glory make us partakers in His  
heavenly meal.  
R. Amen.  






POST PRANDIUM  
 
The Priest begins:  Tu autem, Domine, miserere nobis.  
R. Deo gratias.  All rise.  
The Priest:  Confiteantur tibi, Domine, omnia opera tua.  
R. Et sancti tui benedicant tibi.  Gloria Patri, et Filio, et Spiritui  
Sancto.  Sicut erat in principio, et nunc, et semper, et in saecula  
saeculorum.  Amen.  
The Priest continues:  Agimus tibi gratias, omnipotens Deus, pro  
universis beneficiis tuis:  Qui vivis et regnas in saecula saeculorum.  
R. Amen.  
 
The following psalm is then said by all:  
 
Laudate Dominum, omnes gentes,  
laudate eum, omnes populi.  
Quoniam confirmata est super nos  
misericordia eius  
et veritas Domini manet in aeternum.  
Gloria Patri, et Filio, et Spiritui Sancto.  
        Sicut erat in principio, et nunc, et semper,  
        et in saecula saeculorum.  Amen.  
 
Kyrie eleison.  Christe eleison.  Kyrie eleison.  
Pater noster... [continue in silence up to:]  
V. Et ne nos inducas in tentationem.  
R. Sed libera nos a malo.  
V. Dispersit, dedit pauperibus.  
R. Iustitia eius manet in saeculum saeculi.  
V. Benedicam Dominum in omni tempore.  
R. Semper laus eius in ore meo.  
V. In Domino laudabitur anima mea.  
R. Audiant mansueti, et laetentur.  
V. Magnificate Dominum mecuм.  
R. Et exaltemus nomen eius in idipsum.  
V. Sit nomen Domini benedictum.  
R. Ex hoc nunc et usque in saeculum.  
The Priest:  Retribuere, dignare, Domine, omnibus, nobis bona  
facientibus propter nomen tuum, vitam aeternam.  
R. Amen.  
V. Benedicamus Domino.  
R. Deo gratias.  
V. Fidelium animae per misericordiam Dei requiescant in pace.  
R. Amen.  
Pater noster... [all in silence]  
V. Deus det nobis suam pacem.  
R. Amen.  


AFTER DINNER
 
The Priest begins:  Do you, Lord, have mercy upon us.  
R. Thanks be to God.  All rise.  
The Priest:  May all Thy works confess Thee, Lord.  
R. And may Thy saints bless Thee.  Glory be to the Father, and to the  
Son, and to the Holy Ghost, as it was in the beginning, is now, and  
ever shall be, world without end.  Amen.  
The Priest continues:  We give Thee thanks, almighty God, for all Thy  
benefices:  Who livest and reignest for ever and ever.       R. Amen.  
 
The following psalm is then said by all:  
 
Praise the Lord, all ye nations,  
Praise him, all ye people.  
For His mercy hath been confirmed upon us,  
and the truth of the Lord remainest forever.  
Glory be to the Father and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost.  
        As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world
        without end.  Amen.  
 
Lord, have mercy.  Christ, have mercy.  Lord, have mercy.  
Our Father... [continue in silence up to:]  
V. And lead us not into temptation.  
R. But deliver us from evil.  
V. He distributed and gave to the poor.  
R. His justice remainest for ever and ever.  
V. I shall bless the Lord at all times.  
R. His praise will always be in my mouth.  
V. In the Lord my soul will rejoice.  
R. Let the meek hear, and let them rejoice.  
V. Magnify the Lord with me.  
R. And let us exalt His name together.  
V. Let the name of the Lord be blessed.  
R. From now and forevermore.  
The Priest:  Deign, o Lord, to reward all of us doing good for Thy name,  
with eternal life.  
R. Amen.  
V. Let us bless the Lord.  
R. Thanks be to God.  
V. May the souls of the faithful departed through the mercy of God rest  
in peace.  
R. Amen.  
Our Father... [all in silence]  
V. May God grant us His peace.  
R. Amen.  
 





ANTE COENAM  
 
The Priest:  Benedicite.  
All:  Benedicite.  
The Priest:  Edent pauperes  
And all continue:  et saturabuntur, et laudabunt Dominum, qui requirunt  
eum:  vivant corda eorum in saeculum saeculi.  Gloria Patri, et Filio,  
et Spiritui Sancto.  Sicut erat in principio, et nunc, et semper, et in  
saecula saeculorum.  Amen.  
Kyrie eleison.  Christe eleison.  Kyrie eleison.  
Pater noster... [continue in silence up to:]  
V. Et ne nos inducas in tentationem.  
R. Sed libera nos a malo.  
The Priest then says:  Benedic, Domine, nos et haec tua dona, quae de  
tua largitate sumus sumpturi.  Per Christum Dominum nostrum.  
R.  Amen.  

Then the Priest says:  Iube, Domine, benedicere.  
The Priest:  Ad caenam vitae aeternae perducat nos Rex aeternae gloriae.  
R. Amen.  
 

BEFORE SUPPER  
 
The Priest:  May God bless you (thee - if one person).  
All:  May God bless thee.
The Priest:  The poor will eat  
And all continue:  and will be satisfied, and they will praise the Lord,  
who longs for them:  let their hearts live for ever and ever.  Glory be  
to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost.  As it was in the  
beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end.  Amen.  
R. Amen.  
Lord, have mercy.  Christ, have mercy.  Lord, have mercy.  
Our Father... [continue in silence up to:]  
V. And lead us not into temptation.  
R. But deliver us from evil.  
The Priest then says:  Bless us, O Lord, and these Thy gifts, which we  
are about to receive from Thy bounty.  Through Christ Our Lord.  
R. Amen.  

Then the Priest says:  Bishop, we ask thy blessing.  
The Priest:  May the King of eternal glory lead us to the meal of  
eternal life.  
R. Amen.  
 





IN FINE COENAE  
 
The Priest begins:  Tu autem, Domine, miserere nobis.  
R. Deo gratias.  All rise.  
The Priest:  Memoriam fecit mirabilium suorum, misericors et miserator  
Dominus.  Escam dedit timentibus se.  Gloria Patri et Filio et Spiritui  
Sancto.  Sicut erat in principio, et nunc et semper, et in saecula  
saeculorum.  
Amen.  
The Priest continues:  Benedictus Deus in donis suis, et sanctus in  
omnibus operibus suis, qui vivat et regnat in saecula saeculorum.  
R.  Amen.  
 
The following psalm is then said by all:  
 
Laudate Dominum, omnes gentes,  
laudate eum, omnes populi.  
Quoniam confirmata est super nos  
misericordia eius  
et veritas Domini manet in aeternum.  
Gloria Patri, et Filio, et Spiritui Sancto.  
Sicut erat in principio, et nunc, et semper, et in saecula        
        saeculorum.  Amen.  
 
Kyrie eleison.  Christe eleison.  Kyrie eleison.  
Pater noster... [continue in silence up to:]  
V. Et ne nos inducas in tentationem.  
R. Sed libera nos a malo.  
V. Dispersit, dedit pauperibus.  
R. Iustitia eius manet in saeculum saeculi.  
V. Benedicam Dominum in omni tempore.  
R. Semper laus eius in ore meo.  
V. In Domino laudabitur anima mea.  
R. Audiant mansueti, et laetentur.  
V. Magnificate Dominum mecuм.  
R. Et exaltemus nomen eius in idipsum.  
V. Sit nomen Domini benedictum.  
R. Ex hoc nunc et useque in saeculum.  
The Priest:  Retribuere, dignare, Domine, omnibus, nobis bona  
facientibus propter nomen tuum, vitam aeternam.  
R. Amen.  
V. Benedicamus Domino.  
R. Deo gratias.  
V. Fidelium animae per misericordiam Dei requiescant in pace.  
R. Amen.  
Pater noster... [all in silence]  
V. Deus det nobis suam pacem.  
R. Amen.  
 
And he adds:  
V. Tribuat Dominus benefactoribus nostris pro terrenis caelestia, pro  
temporalibus sempiterna.  
R. Amen.  


AT THE END OF SUPPER
 
The Priest begins:  Do Thou, o Lord, have mercy upon us.  
R. Thanks be to God.  All rise.  
The Priest:  The merciful and compassionate Lord hast made a remembrance  
of his wondrous works.  He hath given food to those fearing Him.  Glory  
be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost.  As it was in  
the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end.  Amen.  
The Priest continues:  Blessed is God in His gifts, and holy in all His  
works, Who livest and reignest for ever and ever.  
R. Amen.  
 
The following psalm is then said by all:  
 
Praise the Lord, all nations,  
Praise Him, all peoples.  
For His mercy has been confirmed upon us,  
and the truth of the Lord remainest forever.  
Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost.  As it  
was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end.    
Amen.  
 
Lord, have mercy.  Christ, have mercy.  Lord, have mercy.  
Our Father... [continue in silence up to:]  
V. And lead us not into temptation.  
R. But deliver us from evil.  
V. He distributed and gave to the poor.  
R. His justice remains for ever and ever.  
V. I shall bless the Lord at all times.  
R. His praise will always be in my mouth.  
V. In the Lord my soul will rejoice.  
R. Let the meek hear, and let them rejoice.  
V. Magnify the Lord with me.  
R. And let us exalt His name together.  
V. Let the name of the Lord be blessed.  
R. From now and for evermore.  
The Priest:  Deign, Lord, to reward all of us doing good for Thy name  
with eternal life.  
R. Amen.  
V. Let us bless the Lord.  
R. Thanks be to God.  
V. May the souls of the faithful departed through the mercy of God rest  
in peace.  
R. Amen.  
Our Father... [all in silence]  
V. May God grant us His peace.  
R. Amen.  
And he adds:  
V. May the Lord grant to us, who do good works, heavenly rewards instead  
of earthly reward, and eternal rewards instead of temporal rewards.  
R. Amen.  





Now, certainly these long forms would be too much for family gatherings.
But here are a few ideas that might be helpful.

You can say some select other prayers that are along the same line as grace
before meals, and if you're really daring, you can do them in Latin! I think it's
time that we start using Latin more in our prayers, since the liturgical revolution
has been primarily driven by the abandonment of Latin. It's time to turn that
trend around, don't you think?




This is the Prayer to St. Michael, that you say at the end of prayers after Low
Mass. It is additionally useful since there are several English versions of this
prayer in use, such that when Catholics gather and pray it out loud, there is a
lot of babble going on due to the different styles of translation. If everyone says
it in Latin, however, everyone is in unison, because there is only ONE Latin
version! This prayer should be memorized by all Roman Catholics:

SANCTE MICHAEL ARCHANGELE

Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et
insidias diaboli esto praesidium.  Imperet illi Deus, supplices deprecamur:  
tuque, Princeps militiae coelestis, Satanam aliosque spiritus malignos, qui
ad perditionem animarum pervagantur in mundo, divina virtute, in infernum
detrude. Amen.





This is the Angel of God prayer, "Angel of God, my guardian dear, to whom God's
love commits me here, ever this day (night) be at my side, to light, to guard, to
rule and guide. Amen." In case you have forgotten, when one prays this prayer
every day, habitually, throughout one's life until death, a plenary indulgence at
the hour of death may be obtained under the normal conditions (which see). This
is an extremely RARE and enormous opportunity, to obtain a plenary indulgence
at the moment when it's most valuable. This Latin prayer should be memorized
by all Roman Catholics. It is extremely easy to do, because it rhymes. I dare you
to read this every day for one week and NOT have it automatically memorized:

ORATIO AD ANGELUM CUSTODEM
 
Angele Dei, qui custos es mei, me tibi commissum pietate superna hodie
(hac nocte) illumina, custodi, rege et guberna.  Amen.



The following prayer contains the source of "RIP" found on tombstones,
"Requiescant in pace" :


ORATIO PRO FIDELIBUS DEFUNCTIS
 
Requiem aeternam dona eis, Domine, et lux perpetua luceat eis.  
Requiescant in pace.  Amen.




Now, this one is a much larger project, but consider that it is traditional for all
monks and nuns to recite this prayer in procession to communal meals, in the
refectory. This has been done for many centuries, before Vatican II. Isn't that
the Faith we claim to profess??



PSALMUS 129  
 
(to be said while processing to the refectory)

DE PROFUNDIS clamavi ad te, Domine:  
      Domine, exaudi vocem meam:  
Fiant aures tuae intendentes,  
      in vocem deprecationis meae.  
Si iniquitates observaveris, Domine:  
      Domine, quis sustinebit?  
Quia apud te propitiatio est:  
      et propter legem tuam sustinui te, Domine.  
Sustinuit anima mea in verbo eius:  
      speravit anima mea in Domino.  
A custodia matutina usque ad noctem:  
      speret Israel in Domino.  
Quia apud Dominum misericordia:  
      et copiosa apud eum redemptio.  
Et ipse redimet Israel,  
      ex omnibus iniquitatibus eius.  
Gloria Patri, et Filio, et Spiritui Sancto.  
      Sicut erat in principio, et nunc, et semper,  
      et in saecula saeculorum.  Amen.  




Finally, there are the prayers used for the Rosary, the Creed, the Pater Noster
and the Ave Maria. These should be memorized by all Roman Catholics:


Symbolum Apostolorum
 
Credo in Deum Patrem omnipotentem, Creatorem caeli et terrae; et in  
Iesum Christum, Filium eius unicuм, Dominum nostrum; qui conceptus est  
de Spiritu Sancto, natus ex Maria Virgine; passus sub Pontio Pilato,  
crucifixus, mortuus, et sepultus; descendit ad inferos; tertia die  
resurrexit a mortuis; ascendit ad caelos, sedet ad dexteram Dei Patris  
omnipotentis; inde venturus est iudicare vivos et mortuos.  Credo in  
Spiritum Sanctum; sanctam Ecclesiam catholicam, sanctorum communionem;  
remissionem peccatorum; carnis resurrectionem; vitam aeternam. Amen.  


 
Oratio Dominica  

Pater noster, qui es in caelis, sanctificetur nomen tuum, adveniat  
regnum tuum, fiat voluntas tua sicut in caelo et in terra.  Panem  
nostrum quotidianum da nobis hodie; et dimitte nobis debita nostra,  
sicut et nos dimittimus debitoribus nostris, et ne nos inducas in  
tentationem, sed libera nos a malo.  Amen.  
   

 
Salutatio Angelica  

Ave, Maria, gratia plena, Dominus tecuм; benedicta tu in mulieribus, et  
benedictus fructus ventris tui, Iesus.  Sancta Maria, mater Dei, ora pro  
nobis peccatoribus, nunc et in hora mortis nostrae.  Amen.  






It is my gut feeling that some kind of medley of Latin and English prayers could
be used for a blessing before meals that would be very edifying and beneficial
for family gatherings. It is going to take some very brave and "proactive" work
for us to reclaim the lost heritage of the Faith of our Fathers. This may be a place
where a great opportunity exists!
 



Are protestant prayers offensive to Our Lord?
« Reply #42 on: August 05, 2012, 10:24:20 PM »
"Bless us, O Lord...etc" is not sufficient?  Good heavens, what that needs to be said does this prayer leave unsaid?   :mad:

Are protestant prayers offensive to Our Lord?
« Reply #43 on: August 08, 2012, 05:14:57 AM »
God is all knowing amd He sees into the heart of everybody. He knows who truly loves Him and who doesn't. The Unpublished Manuscript mentions that a protestant women who died in a shipwreck went straight to Heaven because she made a perfect act of contrition as she died. Jesus said that the publican who prayed in the Temple was justified while the Pharasee was not.
I believe that God is pleased with the prayers of all those who are truly sincere. He may be more pleased with the prayers of some Protestants than He is with mine. I only hope that I do not become an obstacle to anyone's conversion.  

Are protestant prayers offensive to Our Lord?
« Reply #44 on: August 08, 2012, 09:03:02 AM »
heard a talk awhile back, that God does not hear the prayers of unbeleivers unless it is a prayer of repentance......not sure if heretics are lumped in there......healings? probably...worship, no-Prot worship does and achieves nothing.....God of course, knows the heart of hte individual, but as a rule, Prot worship=Nada.....