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Author Topic: Are People Married In Non Catholic Ceremonies Really Married?  (Read 9596 times)

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Re: Are People Married In Non Catholic Ceremonies Really Married?
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2022, 10:55:56 PM »
I'm not disputing what you said if this is indeed the Church's teaching, it nevertheless doesn't make sense to me since the prospective spouses could make vows to each other allowing for a pluralistic or polyamorous arrangement, which we are seeing more and more of these days. This has always been widespread in pagan cultures. Up until the last century or so arranged marriages were pretty much the norm, even in Christendom. In these cases it doesn't even seem like the consent of each spouse was a consideration.
You have moved the goal posts! I understand that we are talking of marriage, not polygamy.
You seem confused as to what constitutes marriage.

Marriage is the union of ONE man and ONE woman to remain faithful to each other until one of them departs this world.

I think your dates are out for arranged marriages in the west, but they have still worked well. Arranged marriage is not forced marriage. Marriage still requires the consent of the proposed spouses.

Offline Emile

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Re: Are People Married In Non Catholic Ceremonies Really Married?
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2022, 11:14:48 PM »
I haven't found a better resource for understanding the Church's teaching on marriage:

https://archive.org/details/commentaryonnewc0005bach/page/n10/mode/1up


Offline Quo vadis Domine

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Re: Are People Married In Non Catholic Ceremonies Really Married?
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2022, 01:52:07 AM »
The have to be baptized in the Catholic Church to Catholic parents.  If they were baptized by Prots and raised by Prots, their marriages would be valid.

Taught not only at STAS, but explained to me also by several Catholic priests, including then-Father Sanborn:
So that last part refers to those who, somehow (how, I don't know) were baptized in the Catholic Church but whose parents were non-Catholics and then raised them from infancy as non-Catholics.

Actually, now that I think of it, I recall the case of that Jєωιѕн boy raised by Pope Pius IX.  So, a Catholic nurse saw an infant with Jєωιѕн parents who was thought to be dying.  So she baptized the boy.  Yet the boy lived.  Well, the boy was baptized by a Catholic (as a Catholic) but was the child of non-Catholics and raised as a non-Catholic (i.e. as a Jєω).  Had he grown up and married a Jєωess, his marriage would not have been invalid, since, although he was baptized Catholic, his parents were non-Catholics and he would have been raised as a non-Catholic.  As it was, however, Pope Pius IX had other plans.

This is actually a very interesting story (even if a slight tangent) --
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortara_case

For a while, the NO made an exception for those who formally renounced the faith, but Ratzinger actually rolled that back in 2009 because it was causing massive confusion.

So this is a NO Canon Law commentary --
https://canonlawmadeeasy.com/2019/09/26/why-cant-an-ex-catholic-marry-validly-outside-the-church/


Very good. Thank you for this!

Re: Are People Married In Non Catholic Ceremonies Really Married?
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2022, 08:37:10 AM »
All valid Trinitarian baptisms are "Catholic baptisms".  Someone baptized by non-Catholics (remember, anyone can baptize validly, even an apostate) remains a Catholic until they attain the age of reason, at which time, if they embrace another religion (or no religion at all), they become at least material heretics, granted, through no fault of their own.  

It seems to me, then, that the Church creates a kind of legal fiction, by which those children are treated in Canon Law as never having been Catholics.  If it's not a legal fiction, then what is it?

Re: Are People Married In Non Catholic Ceremonies Really Married?
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2022, 09:30:59 AM »
I know a couple who got married in a civil ceremony, she was baptized in the NO, he was baptized in a protestant church. 
Eventually they both became trad Catholics and joined an SSPX church. 
They were required to each be rebaptized then live as brother and sister for a year while he received instruction in the Catholic Church in order of them to have a formal Catholic ceremony.
Does that sound right?