Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Catholic Living in the Modern World => Topic started by: Predestination on September 17, 2024, 03:25:56 AM
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My dad was invalidly “married” to a woman in the past, then they separated and legally divorced but never got an annulment, yet their marriage was definitely invalid. Then he ‘married’ my mum, is his marriage to my mum valid considering he was never married to the other women in the first place or does he need an annulment to prove he was never married to that woman in the first place therefore invalidating his marriage to my mum and making me a bastard.
Also if I am a bastard can I still become a preist?
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*become a priest not be a priest
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How was your father married the first time. If his marriage was in the NO church or another protestant order church that marriage would possibly be valid. If he was married at the justice of the peace, then for sure it's not valid. If he was married at the justice of the peace or something simular and then remarried in a valid church, even if it's protestant, then his marriage today is valid I think. To be sure, why don't you ask a Traditional Catholic Priest. In marriage, the contract is between the man and the woman. It's different from other sacraments of the Catholic Church because of that which is why a marriage could be valid in other churches other than Catholic, I think. I personally know priests who come from families where their parents are divorced or not Catholic so I don't think that's an obstacle for you becoming a priest. I am far from a scolar on this, so it's best to ask a Traditional Catholic priest as I said before. Perhaps others will chime in with information. Best of luck to you in the future.
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I can't help you with the marriage, but as for being a priest, there is an impediment regarding illegitimate births, but I have heard that Traditionalists bishops easily dispense candidates from it. If you seriously think about being a priest, I don't think you should worry about it.
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How was your father married the first time. If his marriage was in the NO church or another protestant order church that marriage would possibly be valid. If he was married at the justice of the peace, then for sure it's not valid. If he was married at the justice of the peace or something simular and then remarried in a valid church, even if it's protestant, then his marriage today is valid I think. To be sure, why don't you ask a Traditional Catholic Priest. In marriage, the contract is between the man and the woman. It's different from other sacraments of the Catholic Church because of that which is why a marriage could be valid in other churches other than Catholic, I think. I personally know priests who come from families where their parents are divorced or not Catholic so I don't think that's an obstacle for you becoming a priest. I am far from a scolar on this, so it's best to ask a Traditional Catholic priest as I said before. Perhaps others will chime in with information. Best of luck to you in the future.
The part about "another Protestant order church [sic]" doesn't make sense. If the father was a Catholic at the time of his putative marriage, then unless there was some sort of dispensation as to canonical form, the marriage was invalid. Catholics cannot marry validly outside of canonical form (again, unless there is some sort of dispensation from it). Nonetheless, the Catholic putative spouse has to "go through the motions" and have that first marriage declared invalid. It's pretty much just a docuмent review, assembling paperwork, affidavits and so on, to ascertain that it was indeed outside the Church, and was never convalidated or subjected to a sanatio in radice, but it still has to be done. (I deliberately omitted the situation of a marriage in the "NO church", as some would say that the Novus Ordo apparatus is indeed "the Church", ergo providing canonical form, and some would say that it is NOT "the Church".)
The "justice of the peace" scenario would be ipso facto invalid (again, barring a dispensation from canonical form).
As to the larger question, I don't know how the Church traditionally regarded children born to invalidly married couples (as opposed to children born out of wedlock even in the eyes of the civil authorities), nor whether this would be considered bastardy for purposes of ordination. I'll look to others to supply that information.
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If your father was free to marry your mother, and she free to marry him, then their marriage is valid.
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How was your father married the first time. If his marriage was in the NO church or another protestant order church that marriage would possibly be valid. If he was married at the justice of the peace, then for sure it's not valid. If he was married at the justice of the peace or something simular and then remarried in a valid church, even if it's protestant, then his marriage today is valid I think. To be sure, why don't you ask a Traditional Catholic Priest. In marriage, the contract is between the man and the woman. It's different from other sacraments of the Catholic Church because of that which is why a marriage could be valid in other churches other than Catholic, I think. I personally know priests who come from families where their parents are divorced or not Catholic so I don't think that's an obstacle for you becoming a priest. I am far from a scolar on this, so it's best to ask a Traditional Catholic priest as I said before. Perhaps others will chime in with information. Best of luck to you in the future.
He was first “married” in a Hindu ceremony as a baptised catholic - 100% invalid
he remarried as an apostate Protestant to a Protestant
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The part about "another Protestant order church [sic]" doesn't make sense. If the father was a Catholic at the time of his putative marriage, then unless there was some sort of dispensation as to canonical form, the marriage was invalid. Catholics cannot marry validly outside of canonical form (again, unless there is some sort of dispensation from it). Nonetheless, the Catholic putative spouse has to "go through the motions" and have that first marriage declared invalid. It's pretty much just a docuмent review, assembling paperwork, affidavits and so on, to ascertain that it was indeed outside the Church, and was never convalidated or subjected to a sanatio in radice, but it still has to be done. (I deliberately omitted the situation of a marriage in the "NO church", as some would say that the Novus Ordo apparatus is indeed "the Church", ergo providing canonical form, and some would say that it is NOT "the Church".)
The "justice of the peace" scenario would be ipso facto invalid (again, barring a dispensation from canonical form).
As to the larger question, I don't know how the Church traditionally regarded children born to invalidly married couples (as opposed to children born out of wedlock even in the eyes of the civil authorities), nor whether this would be considered bastardy for purposes of ordination. I'll look to others to supply that information.
Since my father never went through the motions of annulment is his marriage to my mum also invalid
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Since my father never went through the motions of annulment is his marriage to my mum also invalid
If you are asking the question because you are concerned about its implications on your vocation, you would be better to ask whatever congregation you want to enter rather than a bunch of strangers on the internet. It is hard for us to give you an answer with the limited info you’ve provided. Normally people enter seminary/congregation at the community that their family attends or that they have attended for quite a while. That way the community can get to know you and comment on your particular situation.
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He was first “married” in a Hindu ceremony as a baptised catholic - 100% invalid
he remarried as an apostate Protestant to a Protestant
It sounds as though both marriages would be invalid, though if he has returned to the Church and is still with his second wife, he could have that marriage convalidated. But the first marriage would still have to be declared invalid, again, that would be pretty much a paperwork issue.
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It sounds as though both marriages would be invalid, though if he has returned to the Church and is still with his second wife, he could have that marriage convalidated. But the first marriage would still have to be declared invalid, again, that would be pretty much a paperwork issue.
I would still be a bastard tho right, is legitimisation possible
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Depends on if they were both validly baptized. I have a friend whose mother was "married" at 18 & wasn't baptized & "married" (not in a church-protestant style) a baptized (not practicing) Catholic, he was 19. A few years later, they split up. Then 5 years later the unbaptized woman met another baptized Catholic (not practicing) they got "married" (protestant style quicky Las Vegas kind) 5 years later the man started to take his Catholic religion seriously & he finally knew his "marriage" to this woman wasn't valid because she was never baptized. He taught & converted his "wife" To make things right in the Church, his "wife" needed to show proof to the Church that her first "marriage" wasn't valid because she wasn't baptized. The annulment was granted, she got baptized & they got married in the Church. So, if your dad & his first wife were validly baptized, they cannot marry again.
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Depends on if they were both validly baptized. I have a friend whose mother was "married" at 18 & wasn't baptized & "married" (not in a church-protestant style) a baptized (not practicing) Catholic, he was 19. A few years later, they split up. Then 5 years later the unbaptized woman met another baptized Catholic (not practicing) they got "married" (protestant style quicky Las Vegas kind) 5 years later the man started to take his Catholic religion seriously & he finally knew his "marriage" to this woman wasn't valid because she was never baptized. He taught & converted his "wife" To make things right in the Church, his "wife" needed to show proof to the Church that her first "marriage" wasn't valid because she wasn't baptized. The annulment was granted, she got baptized & they got married in the Church. So, if your dad & his first wife were validly baptized, they cannot marry again.
Well my dad was novus ordo before he apostatised so he very well may have been given the invalid “we baptise” formula. But even if he wasn’t he did it in a Hindu ceremony, is that not invalid?
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Well my dad was novus ordo before he apostatised so he very well may have been given the invalid “we baptise” formula. But even if he wasn’t he did it in a Hindu ceremony, is that not invalid?
He probably was validly baptized in the NO. But was the first woman he married, was she baptized & it doesn't matter if she was baptized in a protestant church, it could still be valid. Do you know if she was baptized? Because this is a big deal if she was. Your father cannot marry again until "till death do us part" then he is free to marry again, correctly.
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He probably was validly baptized in the NO. But was the first woman he married, was she baptized & it doesn't matter if she was baptized in a protestant church, it could still be valid. Do you know if she was baptized? Because this is a big deal if she was. Your father cannot marry again until "till death do us part" then he is free to marry again, correctly.
I don’t know, but if she was baptised wouldn’t the fact that it was a Hindu ceremony mean their marriage wasn’t valid anyway?
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I don’t know, but if she was baptised wouldn’t the fact that it was a Hindu ceremony mean their marriage wasn’t valid anyway?
Ok, sorry I missed your post about the hindu. I don't believe hindus get baptized. Was she always a hindu, or did she become one later on in her life? No protestantism in her past?
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I don’t know, but if she was baptised wouldn’t the fact that it was a Hindu ceremony mean their marriage wasn’t valid anyway?
Can you ask your father about her or talk to her and ask these questions?
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Ok, sorry I missed your post about the hindu. I don't believe hindus get baptized. Was she always a hindu, or did she become one later on in her life? No protestantism in her past?
I never studied hinduism anyways, so I don't know what they do. Isn't their god an 8 armed demon?
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I never studied hinduism anyways, so I don't know what they do. Isn't their god an 8 armed demon?
I don’t know and I don’t want to know. I don’t want to study the details about a demon worshiping religion. But it wasn’t a catholic ceremony
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I don’t know and I don’t want to know. I don’t want to study the details about a demon worshiping religion. But it wasn’t a catholic ceremony
I'm not telling you to "study" the demon worshipping religion. I'm saying ask your dad if she was born into hinduism or became one later in life. Like I would tell people to STUDY the details...
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I'm not telling you to "study" the demon worshipping religion. I'm saying ask your dad if she was born into hinduism or became one later in life. Like I would tell people to STUDY the details...
My dad was an ex Hindu, that’s why he did the Hindu ceremony, not because of her
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My dad was an ex Hindu, that’s why he did the Hindu ceremony, not because of h
Is this the first time you said he's an ex hindu? Because I didn't see you mention this before. I read-"well my dad was novus ordo before he apostatized..." and "He was first "married" in a hindu ceremony as a baptised Catholic..."
So, I figured it was all demon hindu stuff because of the woman. Why didn't you make that clear from the starting post? I took it that your father was "a novus ordo before he apostatized" because that's what you said.
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Anyawys, I'm not calling you a bastard, because your issue is confusing right now, but bastards cannot become priests.
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Anyawys, I'm not calling you a bastard, because your issue is confusing right now, but bastards cannot become priests.
I think the fake NO church allows it though. That's what I've read.
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Is this the first time you said he's an ex hindu? Because I didn't see you mention this before. I read-"well my dad was novus ordo before he apostatized..." and "He was first "married" in a hindu ceremony as a baptised Catholic..."
So, I figured it was all demon hindu stuff because of the woman. Why didn't you make that clear from the starting post? I took it that your father was "a novus ordo before he apostatized" because that's what you said.
my bad
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Anyawys, I'm not calling you a bastard, because your issue is confusing right now, but bastards cannot become priests.
Can there be a dispension?
also if the first “marriage” is invalid is the “second” also invalid
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Can there be a dispension?
also if the first “marriage” is invalid is the “second” also invalid
Do you talk to your father about this? Are both your parents Catholic, like SSPX? Where do you attend Mass, SSPX? I would talk to a priest at my SSPX parish about these issues. They just need to prove that your dad or his ex-first "wife" weren't BAPTIZED, this is the most important issue, because Christ Almighty did not recognize it. Say the first issue is all situated & there was no marriage, your parents' marriage is valid if both of them were validly BAPTIZED. Please go talk to a valid priest about this.