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Author Topic: Are Certain Souls Born Damned To Hell?  (Read 753 times)

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Offline alancarmine

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Are Certain Souls Born Damned To Hell?
« on: February 09, 2026, 06:15:12 PM »
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  • Dear Catholics, I am an unknowledgeable young convert of a couple of months. I had an issue come up fairly recently when it comes to conversion. Are certain souls, people, born in this world to be damned into hell? As there is no chance for their soul to make it into Heaven, likewise as punishment for their parents?

    I'm 17, I've lived a deliberately pious life with no knowledge of God until I was 16. A byproduct of the world we live in, which I was born into. My family are Godless, and there are no good churches in my area nor people willing to speak the faith, nor ability to reach the ones preaching the true faith thanks to demoralization and censorship. By the grace of God I was able to convert, finding great content by Bishop Williamson, Fr. Hesse, Fr. Altenbach, Fulton Sheen, and more I discover as time goes on.

    This question may seem ridiculous considering my own circuмstances and my own conversation of faith. However, I'll lay down the groundwork for why I think this is the case.

    A few months back, I met a young girl after she made herself known to me. Things were fine, then not. I spare the details but she was clearly demonic as I see it now. The Commandments were broken. I had enough of it and told her God Bless you. Then her brother reached out so I told him about all of the things she had done. Including things she told me, which was not all of it, I know.

    Her mother is a pagan, was never married to her father, her grandparents are horrible, and her great-grandparents are Lutheran, which is the only way she has been to Church. Her great grandfather gifted her a "playgirl" magazine and betty boop memorabilia.

    This girl does not have a good home life. She lives in an apartment in a city, unmarried deceased father, sad older brother who is a "rapper". Her mother is an adulterous woman who speaks about it closely with her daughter. Only has children who are half siblings, etcétéra.

    So I wonder, if because of all of this, especially so early on in her life, she's incapable of converting. If she was born without a spirit as animals are, designed and able to function as a human being but with no capability to convert.

    With so many young people in 2026 living a similar life I wonder how many souls were put here without the capability to understand as it would be unfair to them to have a conscience worthy of God, thanks to the atrocities they come from and were been born into.

    Therefore this is a conclusion I've come to, I would love to read theological evidence for or against this reason.
    Forgive us our sins

    Offline Florian

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    Re: Are Certain Souls Born Damned To Hell?
    « Reply #1 on: February 09, 2026, 06:47:07 PM »
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  • (...) So I wonder, if because of all of this, especially so early on in her life, she's incapable of converting. If she was born without a spirit as animals are, designed and able to function as a human being but with no capability to convert.

    With so many young people in 2026 living a similar life I wonder how many souls were put here without the capability to understand as it would be unfair to them to have a conscience worthy of God, thanks to the atrocities they come from and were been born into.

    Therefore this is a conclusion I've come to, I would love to read theological evidence for or against this reason.

    Your conclusion seems contrary to the faith since it implies a positive predetermination to sin, and an unconditional Predestination to the eternal punishment of Hell, i.e., without consideration of future demerits, which is heretical.

    According to the teaching of the Church, there is a conditioned positive reprobation, that is, it occurs with consideration of foreseen future demerits (post et propter praevisa demerita). The conditional nature of Positive Reprobation is demanded by the generality of the Divine Resolve of salvation. This excludes God's desiring in advance the damnation of certain men.


    Offline WorldsAway

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    Re: Are Certain Souls Born Damned To Hell?
    « Reply #2 on: February 09, 2026, 06:54:05 PM »
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  • Damnation requires an act of the will, committing mortal sin..so no one is doomed to be damned without their consent 

    Pray for this girl's conversation. I don't suppose many have the benefit of a Catholic praying for them in particular 
     

    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    Offline alancarmine

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    Re: Are Certain Souls Born Damned To Hell?
    « Reply #3 on: February 09, 2026, 07:00:34 PM »
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  • Your conclusion seems contrary to the faith since it implies a positive predetermination to sin, and an unconditional Predestination to the eternal punishment of Hell, i.e., without consideration of future demerits, which is heretical.

    According to the teaching of the Church, there is a conditioned positive reprobation, that is, it occurs with consideration of foreseen future demerits (post et propter praevisa demerita). The conditional nature of Positive Reprobation is demanded by the generality of the Divine Resolve of salvation. This excludes God's desiring in advance the damnation of certain men.
    Well said. It is difficult in 2026 to find theological material online so pardon my inference.
    Forgive us our sins

    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Are Certain Souls Born Damned To Hell?
    « Reply #4 on: February 09, 2026, 07:16:43 PM »
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  • Dear Catholics, I am an unknowledgeable young convert of a couple of months. I had an issue come up fairly recently when it comes to conversion. Are certain souls, people, born in this world to be damned into hell? As there is no chance for their soul to make it into Heaven, likewise as punishment for their parents?
     Everyone who goes to hell chooses to go their by their own will, i.e by committing sin.

    I'm 17, I've lived a deliberately pious life with no knowledge of God until I was 16. A byproduct of the world we live in, which I was born into. My family are Godless, and there are no good churches in my area nor people willing to speak the faith, nor ability to reach the ones preaching the true faith thanks to demoralization and censorship. By the grace of God I was able to convert, finding great content by Bishop Williamson, Fr. Hesse, Fr. Altenbach, Fulton Sheen, and more I discover as time goes on.

    This question may seem ridiculous considering my own circuмstances and my own conversation of faith. However, I'll lay down the groundwork for why I think this is the case.

    A few months back, I met a young girl after she made herself known to me. Things were fine, then not. I spare the details but she was clearly demonic as I see it now. The Commandments were broken. I had enough of it and told her God Bless you. Then her brother reached out so I told him about all of the things she had done. Including things she told me, which was not all of it, I know.
    It is rash to call someone demonic because natural law (10 commandments) were broken.

    Her mother is a pagan, was never married to her father, her grandparents are horrible, and her great-grandparents are Lutheran, which is the only way she has been to Church. Her great grandfather gifted her a "playgirl" magazine and betty boop memorabilia.

    This girl does not have a good home life. She lives in an apartment in a city, unmarried deceased father, sad older brother who is a "rapper". Her mother is an adulterous woman who speaks about it closely with her daughter. Only has children who are half siblings, etcétéra.

    So I wonder, if because of all of this, especially so early on in her life, she's incapable of converting. If she was born without a spirit as animals are, designed and able to function as a human being but with no capability to convert.
    All humans have rational souls not animal souls. She can convert with God's grace though it doesn't mean that SHE WILL convert.

    With so many young people in 2026 living a similar life I wonder how many souls were put here without the capability to understand as it would be unfair to them to have a conscience worthy of God, thanks to the atrocities they come from and were been born into.
     This is contrary to faith, every person is descended from Adam and has a rational soul.

    Therefore this is a conclusion I've come to, I would love to read theological evidence for or against this reason.




    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Are Certain Souls Born Damned To Hell?
    « Reply #5 on: February 09, 2026, 09:16:32 PM »
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  • So I wonder, if because of all of this, especially so early on in her life, she's incapable of converting. If she was born without a spirit as animals are, designed and able to function as a human being but with no capability to convert.

    With so many young people in 2026 living a similar life I wonder how many souls were put here without the capability to understand as it would be unfair to them to have a conscience worthy of God, thanks to the atrocities they come from and were been born into.

    Therefore this is a conclusion I've come to, I would love to read theological evidence for or against this reason.

    So, this attitude doesn't even remotely resemble Cathoicism.  No one is "born without a spirit as animals are".  That's pretty much ... heretical.

    At most you can say is that she's been thoroughly corrupted due to her family situation, but no one is beyond God's grace.

    Nevertheless, we cannot know why God allows some to be born into families like that and others to be born into good families.  Perhaps it's with a view to her ultimate conversion, or perhaps it's just to minimize the eternal punishment she might receive due to these mitigating circuмstances, whereas had she been born into a good family and become just as bad if not worse, then her fate may have been much worse.  But you don't know.

    Now, this does not require that you "date" her, and ... not sure what business you had dating such a one in the first place, but you also don't declare her to be non-human, incapable of conversion, and destined for Hell.  (No one is predestined for Hell.)  Nor are you in a position to eve know who will end up there and who won't.

    Offline OABrownson1876

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    Re: Are Certain Souls Born Damned To Hell?
    « Reply #6 on: February 09, 2026, 10:52:30 PM »
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  • Every man is given sufficient grace to save his soul.  I have read some of the Fathers who say that the antichrist, when he comes, will be given actual graces, which he will of course reject. One of the theologians said that the antichrist will even have a guardian angel who will try and help him to save his soul, but to no avail.

    Fr. Wathen told us, "God sends no man to hell, a man sends himself to hell."  It is a mystery why some infants die without baptism, but let us face the fact, had they gone on to lead adult lives they would have had a deeper place in hell more than likely. 
    Bryan Shepherd, M.A. Phil.
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    Online Stubborn

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    Re: Are Certain Souls Born Damned To Hell?
    « Reply #7 on: February 10, 2026, 04:34:56 AM »
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  • Every man is given sufficient grace to save his soul.  I have read some of the Fathers who say that the antichrist, when he comes, will be given actual graces, which he will of course reject. One of the theologians said that the antichrist will even have a guardian angel who will try and help him to save his soul, but to no avail.

    Fr. Wathen told us, "God sends no man to hell, a man sends himself to hell."  It is a mystery why some infants die without baptism, but let us face the fact, had they gone on to lead adult lives they would have had a deeper place in hell more than likely. 
    I sometimes contemplate this mystery. Paraphrasing St. Teresa, Fr. Wathen said that God saves those whom He wills, and yet those who are lost are lost because they will. No one is saved against his will and no one is damned against his will. 

    Each and every one of us are created for a specific reason -  to know, love and serve God in this world, so as to be happy with Him in the next world.   
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Are Certain Souls Born Damned To Hell?
    « Reply #8 on: February 10, 2026, 10:43:24 AM »
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  • Every man is given sufficient grace to save his soul.  I have read some of the Fathers who say that the antichrist, when he comes, will be given actual graces, which he will of course reject. One of the theologians said that the antichrist will even have a guardian angel who will try and help him to save his soul, but to no avail.

    Fr. Wathen told us, "God sends no man to hell, a man sends himself to hell."  It is a mystery why some infants die without baptism, but let us face the fact, had they gone on to lead adult lives they would have had a deeper place in hell more than likely.

    I'm not sure I buy this formula, as it appears too simplistic.  How about an infant who dies without the Sacrament of Baptism?  Sometimes these formulas "sound good" and are adopted, just like the misapplied SSPX formula "faith is greater than obedience" ... sounds good on the surface, but completely misapplied to the papal teaching authority.

    In any case, it is true that there's no one in Hell who did not choose to go there, but salvation, elevation to the Beatific Vision is a gift owed to no man, as it's above our nature, not required in justice, etc.  In the case of infants who die without Baptism, I'm sure that in many, most, if not all cases ... that was allowed to happen because God had foreknowledge that they would reject any graces that would be given him and end up in Hell, with Limbo being a great Mercy from God.

    God sometimes will WITHOLD grace when He foreknows that it will be rejected.  So God WOULD offer every man the graces sufficient for salvation, WERE they going to accept them, but He will sometimes withold them out of Mercy, to prevent their greater punishment for having refused them.

    God WILLS that all men be saved, but He does not take away THEIR free will, and God WOULD give every man sufficient grace for salvation IF they were going to accept it.

    Let's say I have $10,000 and intend to give it to my son, but I (suddenly given a gift of foreknowledge) realized that my son would take the money, buy a motorcycle with it, and kill himself.  So I withold the money.  I fully intended to give him the money, and I willed to give it to him, but am witholding it only due to the known outcome.  There's no injustice or lack of mercy on my part to give him the money.  In fact, it would be cruel and unmerciful of me to give it to him given the knowledge I have of what would happen.  This does not make it so that I'm a greedy / ungenerous individual.

    Offline OABrownson1876

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    Re: Are Certain Souls Born Damned To Hell?
    « Reply #9 on: February 11, 2026, 07:25:49 AM »
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  • I'm not sure I buy this formula, as it appears too simplistic.  How about an infant who dies without the Sacrament of Baptism?  Sometimes these formulas "sound good" and are adopted, just like the misapplied SSPX formula "faith is greater than obedience" ... sounds good on the surface, but completely misapplied to the papal teaching authority.

    In any case, it is true that there's no one in Hell who did not choose to go there, but salvation, elevation to the Beatific Vision is a gift owed to no man, as it's above our nature, not required in justice, etc.  In the case of infants who die without Baptism, I'm sure that in many, most, if not all cases ... that was allowed to happen because God had foreknowledge that they would reject any graces that would be given him and end up in Hell, with Limbo being a great Mercy from God.

    God sometimes will WITHOLD grace when He foreknows that it will be rejected.  So God WOULD offer every man the graces sufficient for salvation, WERE they going to accept them, but He will sometimes withold them out of Mercy, to prevent their greater punishment for having refused them.

    God WILLS that all men be saved, but He does not take away THEIR free will, and God WOULD give every man sufficient grace for salvation IF they were going to accept it.

    Let's say I have $10,000 and intend to give it to my son, but I (suddenly given a gift of foreknowledge) realized that my son would take the money, buy a motorcycle with it, and kill himself.  So I withold the money.  I fully intended to give him the money, and I willed to give it to him, but am witholding it only due to the known outcome.  There's no injustice or lack of mercy on my part to give him the money.  In fact, it would be cruel and unmerciful of me to give it to him given the knowledge I have of what would happen.  This does not make it so that I'm a greedy / ungenerous individual.
    We could draw a similar analogy with the traditional Catholic family, where the mother has twelve children, but the 13th died in utero without baptism.  Would that child have grown up essentially differently than his siblings?  Why did he die without baptism?  It is a mystery. 

    The farmer in Holy Scripture who cast seed by the roadway, having a pretty good idea that some of it would be trampled, why did he do that?  Would he not make sure that he is a good enough distance from the pathway?  
    Bryan Shepherd, M.A. Phil.
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    Louisville, Ky. 40217; email:letsgobryan@protonmail.com. substack: bryanshepherd.substack.com
    website: www.orestesbrownson.org. Rumble: rumble.com/user/Orestes76

    Offline alancarmine

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    Re: Are Certain Souls Born Damned To Hell?
    « Reply #10 on: Yesterday at 02:31:25 PM »
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  • So, this attitude doesn't even remotely resemble Cathoicism.  No one is "born without a spirit as animals are".  That's pretty much ... heretical.

    At most you can say is that she's been thoroughly corrupted due to her family situation, but no one is beyond God's grace.

    Nevertheless, we cannot know why God allows some to be born into families like that and others to be born into good families.  Perhaps it's with a view to her ultimate conversion, or perhaps it's just to minimize the eternal punishment she might receive due to these mitigating circuмstances, whereas had she been born into a good family and become just as bad if not worse, then her fate may have been much worse.  But you don't know.

    Now, this does not require that you "date" her, and ... not sure what business you had dating such a one in the first place, but you also don't declare her to be non-human, incapable of conversion, and destined for Hell.  (No one is predestined for Hell.)  Nor are you in a position to eve know who will end up there and who won't.
    Very well said, and a good mystery. I had no business entertaining her is the answer. It was my first and last time doing something like that. There was ample deception on her part, but there were signs to begin with, there's always signs to begin with. :fryingpan: 

    I heard from God later (or the Holy Ghost) and was led to teachings pertaining to things I was ignorant of. This has been a very good and ever-strengthening journey, I thank everyone here for their patience with myself and others.
    Forgive us our sins


    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Are Certain Souls Born Damned To Hell?
    « Reply #11 on: Yesterday at 08:59:06 PM »
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  • We all make mistakes. That's what Confession is for.

    But here is an important lesson to take with you into the rest of your life:

    God always forgives (if you repent)
    Man sometimes forgives
    Nature never forgives.

    This has many important consequences. For starters, going the Protestant route of confessing your sins publicly, at seminars, on Youtube, etc. makes people hold your sin against you, and as it were defend your sin. Scripture SPECIFICALLY speaks about this; you can look it up on the best online Bible there is: drbo.org

    Another example, when a woman has an abortion. God will forgive her IF she repents sincerely and confesses her sin. Some men will forgive her, others will not. But Nature is RUTHLESS. She will have long-term damage: emotional, psychological, spiritual, and might have PTSD and nightmares for years. Nature is a cold, harsh mistress. When a woman goes against her nature in such a fundamental way, there are GOING to be consequences, even in this life. Nature is so cold, it will take the life of the last child of a widow, without missing a beat. Nature, being impersonal, follows its millions of processes and laws without a conscience or feeling. When poison is injected into someone's veins, it doesn't matter who that person is. The heart is going to stop beating, and Nature doesn't shed the first tear.

    You can probably come up with hundreds of other examples. But all I can say is: that triple quote is absolutely true.

    And yes, when it comes to salvation, etc. you have to reverence and respect the mystery of it all -- it's God's realm, not ours. Pray for these poor lost souls, but of course don't get mixed up with them. Scripture also talks about the horrible effects of keeping bad company. So many wise sayings in the Sapiential or "Wisdom" books. Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Ecclesiasticus, etc. And if God said it, you can take it to the bank. 100% Gospel truth, literally!
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Are Certain Souls Born Damned To Hell?
    « Reply #12 on: Yesterday at 09:04:15 PM »
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  • I had a hard time clipping it here -- the whole chapter (and the whole book!) is so good.

    Ecclesiasticus chapter 19:

      8 Tell not thy mind to friend or foe: and if there be a sin with thee, disclose it not.  9 For he will hearken to thee, and will watch thee, and as it were defending thy sin he will hate thee, and so will he be with thee always  [Ecclesiasticus (Sirach) 19:9]


    Ok, I found a solution. Here is the WHOLE chapter --

    Admonition against sundry vices.
     1 A workman that is a drunkard shall not be rich: and he that contemneth small things, shall fall by little and little.  2 Wine and women make wise men fall off, and shall rebuke the prudent.  3 And he that joineth himself to harlots, will be wicked. Rottenness and worms shall inherit him, and he shall be lifted up for a greater example, and his soul shall be taken away out of the number.  4 He that is hasty to give credit, is light of heart, and shall be lessened: and he that sinneth against his own soul, shall be despised.  5 He that rejoiceth in iniquity, shall be censured, and he that hateth chastisement, shall have less life: and he that hateth babbling, extinguisheth evil.
     
     6 He that sinneth against his own soul, shall repent: and he that is delighted with wickedness, shall be condemned.  7 Rehearse not again a wicked and harsh word, and thou shalt not fare the worse.  8 Tell not thy mind to friend or foe: and if there be a sin with thee, disclose it not.  9 For he will hearken to thee, and will watch thee, and as it were defending thy sin he will hate thee, and so will he be with thee always  [Ecclesiasticus (Sirach) 19:9]  10 Hast thou heard a word against thy neighbour? let it die within thee, trusting that it will not burst thee.
     11 At the hearing of a word the fool is in travail, as a woman groaning in the bringing forth a child.  12 As an arrow that sticketh in a man's thigh: so is a word in the heart of a fool.  13 Reprove a friend, lest he may not have understood, and say: I did it not: or if he did it, that he may do it no more.  14 Reprove thy neighbour, for it may be he hath not said it: and if he hath said it, that he may not say it again.  15 Admonish thy friend: for there is often a fault committed.
     16 And believe not every word. There is one, that slippeth with the tongue, but not from his heart.  17 For who is there that hath not offended with his tongue? Admonish thy neighbour before thou threaten him.  18 And give place to the fear of the most High: for the fear of God is all wisdom, and therein is to fear God, and the disposition of the law is in all wisdom.  19 But the learning of wickedness is not wisdom: and the device of sinners is not prudence.  20 There is a subtle wickedness, and the same is detestable: and there is a man that is foolish, wanting in wisdom.
     21 Better is a man that hath less wisdom, and wanteth understanding, with the fear of God, than he that aboundeth in understanding, and transgresseth the law of the most High.  22 There is an exquisite subtilty, and the same is unjust.  23 And there is one that uttereth an exact word telling the truth. There is one that humbleth himself wickedly, and his interior is full of deceit:  24 And there is one that submitteth himself exceedingly with a great lowliness: and there is one that casteth down his countenance, and maketh as if he did not see that which is unknown:  25 And if he be hindered from sinning for want of power, if he shall find opportunity to do evil, he will do it.
     26 A man is known by his look, and a wise man, when thou meetest him, is known by his countenance.  27 The attire of the body, and the laughter of the teeth, and the gait of the man, shew what he is.  28 There is a lying rebuke in the anger of an injurious man: and there is a judgment that is not allowed to be good: and there is one that holdeth his peace, he is wise.

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