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Author Topic: Are Certain Souls Born Damned To Hell?  (Read 2099 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Are Certain Souls Born Damned To Hell?
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2026, 09:16:32 PM »
So I wonder, if because of all of this, especially so early on in her life, she's incapable of converting. If she was born without a spirit as animals are, designed and able to function as a human being but with no capability to convert.

With so many young people in 2026 living a similar life I wonder how many souls were put here without the capability to understand as it would be unfair to them to have a conscience worthy of God, thanks to the atrocities they come from and were been born into.

Therefore this is a conclusion I've come to, I would love to read theological evidence for or against this reason.

So, this attitude doesn't even remotely resemble Cathoicism.  No one is "born without a spirit as animals are".  That's pretty much ... heretical.

At most you can say is that she's been thoroughly corrupted due to her family situation, but no one is beyond God's grace.

Nevertheless, we cannot know why God allows some to be born into families like that and others to be born into good families.  Perhaps it's with a view to her ultimate conversion, or perhaps it's just to minimize the eternal punishment she might receive due to these mitigating circuмstances, whereas had she been born into a good family and become just as bad if not worse, then her fate may have been much worse.  But you don't know.

Now, this does not require that you "date" her, and ... not sure what business you had dating such a one in the first place, but you also don't declare her to be non-human, incapable of conversion, and destined for Hell.  (No one is predestined for Hell.)  Nor are you in a position to eve know who will end up there and who won't.

Offline OABrownson1876

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Re: Are Certain Souls Born Damned To Hell?
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2026, 10:52:30 PM »
Every man is given sufficient grace to save his soul.  I have read some of the Fathers who say that the antichrist, when he comes, will be given actual graces, which he will of course reject. One of the theologians said that the antichrist will even have a guardian angel who will try and help him to save his soul, but to no avail.

Fr. Wathen told us, "God sends no man to hell, a man sends himself to hell."  It is a mystery why some infants die without baptism, but let us face the fact, had they gone on to lead adult lives they would have had a deeper place in hell more than likely. 


Offline Stubborn

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Re: Are Certain Souls Born Damned To Hell?
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2026, 04:34:56 AM »
Every man is given sufficient grace to save his soul.  I have read some of the Fathers who say that the antichrist, when he comes, will be given actual graces, which he will of course reject. One of the theologians said that the antichrist will even have a guardian angel who will try and help him to save his soul, but to no avail.

Fr. Wathen told us, "God sends no man to hell, a man sends himself to hell."  It is a mystery why some infants die without baptism, but let us face the fact, had they gone on to lead adult lives they would have had a deeper place in hell more than likely. 
I sometimes contemplate this mystery. Paraphrasing St. Teresa, Fr. Wathen said that God saves those whom He wills, and yet those who are lost are lost because they will. No one is saved against his will and no one is damned against his will. 

Each and every one of us are created for a specific reason -  to know, love and serve God in this world, so as to be happy with Him in the next world.   

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Are Certain Souls Born Damned To Hell?
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2026, 10:43:24 AM »
Every man is given sufficient grace to save his soul.  I have read some of the Fathers who say that the antichrist, when he comes, will be given actual graces, which he will of course reject. One of the theologians said that the antichrist will even have a guardian angel who will try and help him to save his soul, but to no avail.

Fr. Wathen told us, "God sends no man to hell, a man sends himself to hell."  It is a mystery why some infants die without baptism, but let us face the fact, had they gone on to lead adult lives they would have had a deeper place in hell more than likely.

I'm not sure I buy this formula, as it appears too simplistic.  How about an infant who dies without the Sacrament of Baptism?  Sometimes these formulas "sound good" and are adopted, just like the misapplied SSPX formula "faith is greater than obedience" ... sounds good on the surface, but completely misapplied to the papal teaching authority.

In any case, it is true that there's no one in Hell who did not choose to go there, but salvation, elevation to the Beatific Vision is a gift owed to no man, as it's above our nature, not required in justice, etc.  In the case of infants who die without Baptism, I'm sure that in many, most, if not all cases ... that was allowed to happen because God had foreknowledge that they would reject any graces that would be given him and end up in Hell, with Limbo being a great Mercy from God.

God sometimes will WITHOLD grace when He foreknows that it will be rejected.  So God WOULD offer every man the graces sufficient for salvation, WERE they going to accept them, but He will sometimes withold them out of Mercy, to prevent their greater punishment for having refused them.

God WILLS that all men be saved, but He does not take away THEIR free will, and God WOULD give every man sufficient grace for salvation IF they were going to accept it.

Let's say I have $10,000 and intend to give it to my son, but I (suddenly given a gift of foreknowledge) realized that my son would take the money, buy a motorcycle with it, and kill himself.  So I withold the money.  I fully intended to give him the money, and I willed to give it to him, but am witholding it only due to the known outcome.  There's no injustice or lack of mercy on my part to give him the money.  In fact, it would be cruel and unmerciful of me to give it to him given the knowledge I have of what would happen.  This does not make it so that I'm a greedy / ungenerous individual.

Offline OABrownson1876

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Re: Are Certain Souls Born Damned To Hell?
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2026, 07:25:49 AM »
I'm not sure I buy this formula, as it appears too simplistic.  How about an infant who dies without the Sacrament of Baptism?  Sometimes these formulas "sound good" and are adopted, just like the misapplied SSPX formula "faith is greater than obedience" ... sounds good on the surface, but completely misapplied to the papal teaching authority.

In any case, it is true that there's no one in Hell who did not choose to go there, but salvation, elevation to the Beatific Vision is a gift owed to no man, as it's above our nature, not required in justice, etc.  In the case of infants who die without Baptism, I'm sure that in many, most, if not all cases ... that was allowed to happen because God had foreknowledge that they would reject any graces that would be given him and end up in Hell, with Limbo being a great Mercy from God.

God sometimes will WITHOLD grace when He foreknows that it will be rejected.  So God WOULD offer every man the graces sufficient for salvation, WERE they going to accept them, but He will sometimes withold them out of Mercy, to prevent their greater punishment for having refused them.

God WILLS that all men be saved, but He does not take away THEIR free will, and God WOULD give every man sufficient grace for salvation IF they were going to accept it.

Let's say I have $10,000 and intend to give it to my son, but I (suddenly given a gift of foreknowledge) realized that my son would take the money, buy a motorcycle with it, and kill himself.  So I withold the money.  I fully intended to give him the money, and I willed to give it to him, but am witholding it only due to the known outcome.  There's no injustice or lack of mercy on my part to give him the money.  In fact, it would be cruel and unmerciful of me to give it to him given the knowledge I have of what would happen.  This does not make it so that I'm a greedy / ungenerous individual.
We could draw a similar analogy with the traditional Catholic family, where the mother has twelve children, but the 13th died in utero without baptism.  Would that child have grown up essentially differently than his siblings?  Why did he die without baptism?  It is a mystery. 

The farmer in Holy Scripture who cast seed by the roadway, having a pretty good idea that some of it would be trampled, why did he do that?  Would he not make sure that he is a good enough distance from the pathway?