Quote from: Matthew

It's a question of mortification and orienting one's soul toward a main goal (being with God forever). Every choice you make either helps you or hurts you.

Matthew

I wish I knew how to put this quote in another thread.  When I try to bring this up with certain people, I get to ld I am uptight, legalistic - you get the idea.  I get told to loosen up and have fun - that if it is not openly sinful, it is OK to do.

I would love to have a discussion on this topic.

Matthew - since you are the moderator - can you help me?

We've mentioned this around here many times before, but as it's hard to define, I doubt the search function will do you much good. : )

Quote from: MaterLaeta

Quote from: Matthew

It's a question of mortification and orienting one's soul toward a main goal (being with God forever). Every choice you make either helps you or hurts you.

Matthew

I wish I knew how to put this quote in another thread.  When I try to bring this up with certain people, I get to ld I am uptight, legalistic - you get the idea.  I get told to loosen up and have fun - that if it is not openly sinful, it is OK to do.

I would love to have a discussion on this topic.

Matthew - since you are the moderator - can you help me?

We've mentioned this around here many times before, but as it's hard to define, I doubt the search function will do you much good. : )

Thanks for starting this.  I hope that once I post my reply to Clare that we can get a good discussion going so that I can learn something. :idea:

This is what I have come up with:

Are they really neutral?  What if you like your stripey top a little more than your plain one?  Wouldn't it be better to wear the plain one as a way of giving up your will?

Or about the potatoes?  Say you like both equally but your spouse prefers mashed?   So you serve mashed as a way to serve and please him.

Yes, I can see that extraneous factors may make a difference in those examples, ie that going against one's own inclination in these things could help in forming a habit of altruism, and therefore help one towards salvation.

But in themselves, they are neutral, I would say.

And if you choose the top you like less today, then you're going to have to choose the one you like most tomorrow!

I am also reminded of a story. I think it's quite well known.

There are two friends, whom I'll call Peter and Paul, and Peter cuts a cake into two portions, one of which is a bit bigger than the other. He asks Paul to choose one of the pieces.
Paul chooses the bigger piece!
Peter complains, "How selfish, choosing the bigger portion!"
So Paul replies, "Well, which piece would you have chosen?"
"The smaller one, of course," says Peter.
Paul replies, "I thought you would, which is why I left it for you!"

Quote from: clare

And if you choose the top you like less today, then you're going to have to choose the one you like most tomorrow!

If you have more than two tops you can choose all over again tomorrow. If you only have two tops then there is no choice to be made tomorrow!  :wink:

I knew someone would say something like that!

Quote from: clare

Ah, perhaps I should have posted my reply that I posted on the other thread, to this thread.

Basically - neutral choices, which will not affect one's salvation or damnation:

Shall I wear this stripy top or that plain one?

Shall we have beef or lamb tonight?

Mashed or roast potatoes?

Strawberry or chocolate milkshake?

Which route should we take?

I see how you could list these as neutral choices and have pondered your question all day.

This is what I have come up with:

Are they really neutral?  What if you like your stripey top a little more than your plain one?  Wouldn't it be better to wear the plain one as a way of giving up your will?

Or about the potatoes?  Say you like both equally but your spouse prefers mashed?   So you serve mashed as a way to serve and please him.

I think of these things in St. Therese's "little way".  Some of the things she did were very small & unnoticeable to anyone.  But they were either ways of denying her own will or serving another.

Now I am not very good at logic and may be making a fallacious argument.

What say you all?

whether hubby likes mashed or not, potatoes or nt, mashed or not-re-read Clare's post, it does not affect salvation-to eat, not or mash...

As far as I know, all that we do, and do not do, matters in terms of working out our salvation.  This is why making our Morning Offering is so good.

But then, to mash or not to mash the tatties just might be one of those early warning signs of scruples- I say just add the secret ingredient of love

Scruples are one of the banes of Traddy Land- but it sems that all we do matters to Almighty God.

May he have mercy on us poor sinners.

Please forgive my typos!
May He have mercy on us poor sinners, capital H!

Again I agree with you, Clare.  This stuff spills over to the control freaks, also-finding fault and evil in every one and every thing.

The World is bad enough as it is.

I also want to clarify why I asked the questions that I did.

I never would have thought about things like mashed potatoes or which shirt to wear as affecting your salvation or not until Clare posted her examples.  Then I took the time to ponder it from a devil's advocate point of view.  By doing so this clears up a lot about what scruples actually are.

It sound like scruples are getting too hung up on little details so that you miss the whole point of love & charity.  Or when you find a way to turn a very small every day thing (picking out what skirt & top to wear) into a mini crisis based on fear that you will go to hell if you make the wrong choice.  Am I even close?

I have heard the word scruples tossed all over forums when someone disagrees about something without anyone ever defining what they really are.

This goes especially for modesty threads over at FE where the threads degenerate to name calling.

I personally, have been called over scrupulous or strict by various friends and family members for strictly monitoring what my kids watch on TV (I know a lot of people here don't have them) or what video games they can play (not many).  I had a family member make comments about how they would never restrict their kids music preferences & let them listen to whatever they want - it's not worth picking a fight over!

Most of my family - since they are not trads and highly disagree with my stance on such things - tend to call me uptight, legalistic, and uncharitable.

But I don't think I'm wrong to be concerned about what my children (& myself) see and listen to.  I've ben accused of being a prude because I am considering wearing nothing but skirts and won't accept modern swimwear as modest.  I've been told to let my daughters to wear slutty clothes because "they're just little girls and it doesn't matter that much.  You can enforce that when they are older."  (This was after I refused to let my girls to wear spaghetti strap sundresses at the age of 3 & 4!

I think this helps me to know that no, I am not scrupulous.  And I am going to guess that most people there would agree with me about monitoring TV, music and video games heavily, if they even have them at all.

Thanks again!