Author Topic: Appropriate responses to learning that someone has died (Read 855 times)

Jaynek · « **on:** September 04, 2022, 05:15:38 PM »

There are social expressions to mourners such as, "I'm sorry for your loss". However, the number one response is to pray for the person's soul. The ideal way to do this is, of course, the traditional prayer of the Church.

Eternal rest, grant unto him/her (them), O LORD, ℟. And let perpetual light shine upon him/her (them).

Speculating that the person is in hell is unlikely to be appropriate, although there might be situations for it.

Assuming that people are in Heaven and/or addressing prayers to them is also inappropriate. This practice is unfortunately very common at the Novus Ordo, but it is simply wrong. It may be tempting when we like or admire people, but the true way to show charity is to pray for their souls.

Don't make an assumption that deprives the departed of prayers.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #1 on:** September 04, 2022, 05:45:07 PM »

I presume that you mean when a Catholic has passed away.

For a Catholic, I offer prayers for the soul of the departed, as well as for the family who have been left behind.

For a non-Catholic, I will say that I am sorry for their loss and offer prayers for the family left behind, but not for the repose of the individual's soul.

While it is possible that some soul may have received the grace of an unknown deathbed conversion, to offer prayers for the repose of that soul could create the scandal of promoting the notion that there can be salvation outside the Church. Privately, I may offer some prayers that the person should be converted in the past, since it's certain that God is not bound by time and could indeed hear prayers from (what to us is) the "future" if He willed to. Classic example is how Our Blessed Mother was redeemed by Our Lord "prior" in time to Our Lord's Passion.

It's a little more tricky with ѕυιcιdєs and public sinners who had been Catholics, to balance offering sympathy, not absolutely assuming that the individual has been lost, since if God saved them somehow, they could certainly use the prayers, without at the same time implying that there's "good hope" for the salvation of ѕυιcιdєs and (seemingly) unreprentant public sinners. I've mentioned the story of serving funerals (when I was between 10-14) at the Novus Ordo. I was actually their go-to server at the parish school, so I was regularly pulled out of class to serve funerals that took place during the weekdays. In any case, there were occasionally funerals for ѕυιcιdєs, and the priest generally gave a sermon along the lines of how the person is in a better place now and relieved of the suffering that was so unbearable as to result in the ѕυιcιdє. If I didn't know any better, and had I some day encountered such a situation of extreme distress, that sermon would have been almost an encouragement to commit ѕυιcιdє, to escape the suffering and go to that "better place".

Jaynek · « **Reply #2 on:** September 04, 2022, 06:00:35 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus on September 04, 2022, 05:45:07 PM

I've mentioned the story of serving funerals (when I was between 10-14) at the Novus Ordo. I was actually their go-to server at the parish school, so I was regularly pulled out of class to serve funerals that took place during the weekdays. In any case, there were occasionally funerals for ѕυιcιdєs, and the priest generally gave a sermon along the lines of how the person is in a better place now and relieved of the suffering that was so unbearable as to result in the ѕυιcιdє. If I didn't know any better, and had I some day encountered such a situation of extreme distress, that sermon would have been almost an encouragement to commit ѕυιcιdє, to escape the suffering and go to that "better place".

Good example. In my experience, the Novus Ordo gives wrong messages at funerals so consistently that I dread going to them.

After one such funeral, I told my husband that if I died before him, that he had to stop people from assuming that I was in heaven. He made a joking comment about he was sure that it wouldn't be necessary.

Jaynek · « **Reply #3 on:** September 04, 2022, 06:41:18 PM »

Please feel welcome to use this thread to post any comments about the appropriateness of various posts on Myrna's "obituary" thread. I was hoping that having another place for a discussion of that discussion would allow Myrna's thread to have more focus on prayers and on our memories of her.

Stubborn · « **Reply #4 on:** September 05, 2022, 05:14:58 AM »

"It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins."
[2 Machabees 12:46]

Regardless of what you think when I die, please pray for me as I will for you...

Now death and nature with surprise
behold the trembling sinners rise
to meet the Judge's searching eyes...

...For now before the Judge severe
all hidden things must plain appear;
no crime can pass unpunished here.

O what shall I, so guilty plead?
and who for me will intercede?
when even Saints shall comfort need?

alaric · « **Reply #5 on:** September 05, 2022, 05:55:14 AM »

Anyone who judges someone after they have passed, remember....."One day you too will die."

It is upon a man once to die. Then the judgement.

We will be accountable for every thought, word and deed.

Choose your words carefully.

"It is a fearful and terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God [incurring His judgment and wrath]."

- Hebrews 10:31

ByzCat3000 · « **Reply #6 on:** September 05, 2022, 09:21:12 AM »

Quote from: Ladislaus on September 04, 2022, 05:45:07 PM

I presume that you mean when a Catholic has passed away.

For a Catholic, I offer prayers for the soul of the departed, as well as for the family who have been left behind.

For a non-Catholic, I will say that I am sorry for their loss and offer prayers for the family left behind, but not for the repose of the individual's soul.

While it is possible that some soul may have received the grace of an unknown deathbed conversion, to offer prayers for the repose of that soul could create the scandal of promoting the notion that there can be salvation outside the Church. Privately, I may offer some prayers that the person should be converted in the past, since it's certain that God is not bound by time and could indeed hear prayers from (what to us is) the "future" if He willed to. Classic example is how Our Blessed Mother was redeemed by Our Lord "prior" in time to Our Lord's Passion.

It's a little more tricky with ѕυιcιdєs and public sinners who had been Catholics, to balance offering sympathy, not absolutely assuming that the individual has been lost, since if God saved them somehow, they could certainly use the prayers, without at the same time implying that there's "good hope" for the salvation of ѕυιcιdєs and (seemingly) unreprentant public sinners. I've mentioned the story of serving funerals (when I was between 10-14) at the Novus Ordo. I was actually their go-to server at the parish school, so I was regularly pulled out of class to serve funerals that took place during the weekdays. In any case, there were occasionally funerals for ѕυιcιdєs, and the priest generally gave a sermon along the lines of how the person is in a better place now and relieved of the suffering that was so unbearable as to result in the ѕυιcιdє. If I didn't know any better, and had I some day encountered such a situation of extreme distress, that sermon would have been almost an encouragement to commit ѕυιcιdє, to escape the suffering and go to that "better place".

I don't agree on the whole Feeneyism bit (not using as a slur, just a description since that's generally what its called) but yeah, assuming you're right on how EENS works, I get why it would be pretty irresponsible to offer prayers for the soul of the departed non Catholic. But even then, you say you're sorry for the loss, you offer prayers for the family of the dead, you don't show up at the wake and start telling everyone the person died as a non Catholic so they're damned. If you're asked, you can say that you believe all that die as non Catholics are lost and that you hope somehow they converted on their deathbed but you can't count on it.

I really don't know how to put what AugustineEENS did in a charitable light. Honestly it seems at least materially schismatic, even if somewhat excused due to the crisis in the church, if you're at the point where you think every single cleric is a formal heretic (which is how Dimondism works). But then ON TOP OF THAT adding the Pharisaical attitude.... I don't know man. Even if its possible his heart was in the right place (and I'm going to be honest, I find that hard to believe, but I get the idea) I think objectively this sorta thing is toxic and needs to be shut down.

Author Topic: Appropriate responses to learning that someone has died (Read 855 times)

Jaynek

Appropriate responses to learning that someone has died

Ladislaus

Re: Appropriate responses to learning that someone has died

Jaynek

Re: Appropriate responses to learning that someone has died

Jaynek

Re: Appropriate responses to learning that someone has died

Stubborn

Re: Appropriate responses to learning that someone has died

alaric

Re: Appropriate responses to learning that someone has died

ByzCat3000

Re: Appropriate responses to learning that someone has died