Author Topic: Anyone else wondering... (Read 3374 times)

parentsfortruth · « **on:** November 04, 2010, 06:26:53 PM »

:reporter:

I am up to my old investigative ways, yet again, and I was wondering if anyone can show me the clear docuмentation of Pius XII saying that Saturday is good enough for your Sunday obligation, and under what circuмstances in which he said aforesaid thing? I have questions, because I believe there were very specific circuмstances (i.e. Policeman, Fireman, Hospital worker, et cetera) where people were dispensed from Sunday Mass. I found some obscure publication, that used to publish things that the Pope said, but of course, I cannot find exactly where or what he said. Acta Apostolicae Sedis, is not an encyclical, it's a Vatican publication, but it's like, a monthly thing. I'm finding citations all over the place of this specific issue, but as for finding an English translation, good freakin' luck. I can't find it.

Has anyone else ever looked into this, and if you have, then can you provide the verbatim wording please?

Thanks!

Bring out the dancing bananas!

:dancing-banana: :bob-marley: :dancing-banana: :bob-marley: :dancing-banana: :bob-marley:

Roman Catholic · « **Reply #1 on:** November 04, 2010, 06:57:01 PM »

Quote from: parentsfortruth

I was wondering if anyone can show me the clear docuмentation of Pius XII saying that Saturday is good enough for your Sunday obligation

I have never heard it claimed that Pope Pius X11 said that.

parentsfortruth · « **Reply #2 on:** November 04, 2010, 07:01:08 PM »

From Wikipedia:

Until Pius XII, the Church celebrated Mass always in the mornings, as a reflection of the original sacrifice of Jesus Christ. In light of the displacement and persecution in much of Europe during World War II, evening Masses were permitted on a provisional basis. They turned out to be popular, opening the Church to new publics. He also permitted Church services to take place Saturday evening to fulfil Sunday obligation. [1] [2]

The citations are these:

# ^ AAS 1941, 516,
# ^ AAS 1949, 31-33

AAS stands for Acta Apostolicae Sedis, the Vatican official publishers. And from my investigations of this, it seems that Cardinal Tisserant (who was a RAAAAATTTTT!) was the one who wrote one of these little ditties, not Pius XII. Also, I have not read anything saying anything of the like (with my limited knowledge of Latin, but brain enough to use a phrase tool to try to decipher it somewhat) regarding Saturday. This talks about people in wartorn regions being dispensed from abstinence and fasting, not about a dispensation from Sunday Mass, and instead, going on Saturday.

If anyone wants to take a whack at this, here's the AAS archive (but it's in Latin.)

http://www.vatican.va/archive/aas/index_it.htm

Roman Catholic · « **Reply #3 on:** November 04, 2010, 07:11:41 PM »

Quote from: parentsfortruth

From Wikipedia:

Until Pius XII, the Church celebrated Mass always in the mornings, as a reflection of the original sacrifice of Jesus Christ. In light of the displacement and persecution in much of Europe during World War II, evening Masses were permitted on a provisional basis. They turned out to be popular, opening the Church to new publics. He also permitted Church services to take place Saturday evening to fulfil Sunday obligation. [1] [2]

The citations are these:

# ^ AAS 1941, 516,
# ^ AAS 1949, 31-33

AAS stands for Acta Apostolicae Sedis, the Vatican official publishers. And from my investigations of this, it seems that Cardinal Tisserant (who was a RAAAAATTTTT!) was the one who wrote one of these little ditties, not Pius XII. Also, I have not read anything saying anything of the like (with my limited knowledge of Latin, but brain enough to use a phrase tool to try to decipher it somewhat) regarding Saturday. This talks about people in wartorn regions being dispensed from abstinence and fasting, not about a dispensation from Sunday Mass, and instead, going on Saturday.

If anyone wants to take a whack at this, here's the AAS archive (but it's in Latin.)

http://www.vatican.va/archive/aas/index_it.htm

I think the Wiki article is wrong. Evening Masses on Saturday did not take the place of Sunday Masses.

parentsfortruth · « **Reply #4 on:** November 04, 2010, 07:24:39 PM »

It's not just the wiki citing it. CAF is citing it too, I believe.