The following is the last I will say on the matter. I don't believe responding in this amount of detail is strictly necessary, however out of charity I wish to do so, because the responses on this conversation have revealed a much deeper problem.
I regret not placing this in the library area, where responses are forbidden. I thought that from all the people who would read this, especially the women, they would express gratitude that there are some clear rules on modesty from the Church, with an original source of this information. Some of you have responded favourably towards these rules, and you know who you are. God bless you for it. I am not personally attacking anyone here, nor am I judging, attributing bad will, etc., and nor do I pretend to know how you dress.
This is about sharing the mind of the Church, and it is your responsibility to ensure that you and all those that belong to you, obey it if you are not doing so already. I am not authoritatively exhorting anyone as though I were your priest, parent, teacher, etc. However, the teaching of the Church on morality is that there is a duty called filial correction which not only permits, but encourages admonishing others, whether superior, equal or inferior, for the greater glory of God, and the good of souls. See the Angelic doctor on the matter if you have doubts on this. I cannot understand how anyone could be offended by me simply sharing what the Church teaches on a certain matter. You must be an inflated balloon that bursts at the slightest pinprick if this applies to you, how will you be able to endure the stare of wrath from Our Lord at your judgement from such irrational behaviour, if you do not repent? Is this an example of the humility of the repentant publican, which is the bare minimum to be in the state of grace? Have the principles taught on Ash Wednesday made no impression?
"Learn, O dust, to obey; learn to humble thyself, thou that art but dirt and mire, and to cast thyself down under the feet of all men. Learn to break thy own will, and to yield thyself up to all subjection." — Imitation of Christ, Book III, Chapter XIIIPlease do not read any tones or mannerisms into my words, because those things cannot be conveyed online (as none of you would know, I am a gentle person), only take what I say for what it is, because it is the truth that matters and not necessarily its delivery. And no, Mrs. Gray, not everyone does this, some people take things for what it is (especially men in general). Please look up to them as an example (especially your husband), it would be good for you.
Would traditional catholics have ignored St. John the Baptist's preaching because he had a beard reaching to the ground and was dressed in animal skins, appearing almost as a madman from the desert? Seems like a lot of traditionalists would have, due to his manner of delivering the truth being "off-putting". A woman seeking God truly, will readily dress according to the standards of His Church.
If a truly Catholic King enforced a dress code for attending his coronation, I doubt any of you would have the audacity to rebel against it, or let those under your care rebel, out of respect for his wishes. Is God truly your King? Doing things "as Grandma did", as Bishop Williamson recommended, is a general statement that can be subjective depending on the morale of the particular Grandmother. The rules of the Church on modesty that I have presented are not subjective, and this is obvious to those who are sincerely desiring the truth on the matter. The Vicar-General teaches that certain clothing cannot be considered decent, and gives no exceptions whatsoever. Again I say, a woman who desires Jesus and Jesus alone, will not be intimidated when asked to dress properly, but rather desire the better to please Him by respecting His wishes, as her King. Moreover, how can standards given for young lay-girls attending schools, where they are being educated in virtue (including modesty), be a standard for them and not for all women? Or is Catholic education now subjective?
Pope Pius XI's teaching concerning women being forbidden from Holy Communion and even entering the Church for immodesty, is an example of the lack of tolerance that the Church has for this vice, and proof that a woman who obeys the laws on modesty is not a saint, because such a woman is admitted to Holy Communion, and one is not required to be a saint to receive Holy Communion.
My sharing of Church teaching is for all to read, listen to, and implement like a true child of the Church, not because it is me sharing it, but because it is the Church's rules. I honestly wonder if some of you and other traditional catholics are even Catholic. I say this in charity, with the hope that those reading will enter into themselves, and see if love of truth or of self reigns supreme there. It is characteristic of a modernist to create their own reality from personal experiences and what they feel, and not conform their minds to the reality in front of their eyes, renouncing feelings to the contrary. A Catholic does the latter. It does not matter if one believes in the dogmas of the Faith; if it is because of the wrong motives (because my parents raised me in it, it is all I have known, it makes me feel good, it makes sense, it's a nice story, etc. etc.) and not the true grounds of Faith (because Almighty God has revealed it to us, through His Church), one does not actually have the Faith. If anyone is wondering about this, I would encourage you to read "The Grounds of Faith" by Cardinal Manning: https://archive.org/details/a591675000mannuoft/page/n3/mode/2up , along with the teaching of the Vatican Council (1870), the section on Faith and Reason. Now of course, since we are not saints, we give in to certain sins due to not renouncing our passions and in a sense deny reality by inconsistency in virtue, etc., but this is not what I am referring to. I am referring to refusing to submit to what a Church teaching clearly says in front of one's eyes because it is inconvenient, not in conformity to one's experiences and memories, etc.
If traditional Catholics cannot conform their minds to the reality written down in front of them, of a simple directive on modesty, what else are you lying to yourselves about? And why is this so hard for you to accept, adding your own personal commentary and objections? I know women who have seen these standards, and readily conform themselves to it without complaining. What part of translucent stockings began as a trend among fallen women in Paris, do you not understand? Do you know what women of ill-repute were in Paris at that time? Whores.
Any decent, honest Catholic would read these standards and prefer the judgement of the Pope over their own on morals, even if the Pope's teaching on this is not ex cathedrâ, or taught with a higher degree of binding power. Have you considered that he did not deem it necessary, because it would be in itself sufficient to ring true to the
upright consciences of Catholics? Does the Pope need to declare that pornography is immoral for you to avoid it, or make a solemn declaration on the immorality of bikinis, rock music, rap music, smoking marijuana, taking fentanyl? Of course not.
Consider that perhaps one of the reasons for God not giving us a holy Pope to submit to is because most of us would not submit, but would come up with any explanation we possibly can, whether theological, moral, etc. to not listen to his ordinances. As Bishop Williamson has pointed out, God does not give graces that will be abused. He has clearly not been pleased to bless us with a resolution to the crisis. How many of us imitate the truly sacrificial spirit of the Ninevites, for example, who listened to the Prophet with holy fear, did penance, and averted the wrath of God? With the way some people act on Cathinfo, they belong more truly in the Conciliar Church. And even if these modesty standards were not strictly required, what person ever entered Heaven doing the bare minimum? Is this the recompense that Our Lord's love deserves? Our Lord shed the last drop of His Precious Blood for our souls and suffered infinite pain, and to say it is a radical or saintly act to simply dress properly is a great, great shame. I would challenge you to look at the Crucifix sincerely, and see if you can say such a thing to His Face.These are good excerpts from the Popes to consider; in what true filial obedience to the Church consists...
Pope St. Pius X, Address to the Priests of the Apostolic Union, Nov. 18, 1912"And this is why, when we love the Pope, we do not dispute whether he commands or requires a thing, or seek to know where the strict obligation of obedience lies, or in what matter we must obey; when we love the Pope we do not say that he has not yet spoken clearly — as if he were required to speak his will in every man’s ear, and to utter it not only by word of mouth but in letters and other public docuмents as well. Nor do we cast doubt on his orders, alleging the pretext which comes easily to the man who does not want to obey, that it is not the Pope who is commanding, but someone in his entourage. We do not limit the field in which he can and ought to exercise his authority; we do not oppose to the Pope’s authority that of other persons — no matter how learned — who differ from the Pope. For whatever may be their learning, they are not holy, for where there is holiness there cannot be disagreement with the Pope."
Pope St. Pius X, Address Con Vera Soddisfazione, May 10, 1909:"Do not let yourselves be deceived by the subtle declarations of others who do not cease to pretend that they wish to be with the Church, to love the Church...Judge these men according to their works. If they maltreat and despise the ministers of the Church and even the Pope; if they try by every means to minimize their authority, to evade their direction, and to disregard their counsels; if they do not fear to raise the standard of rebellion, what Church are these men speaking about?"
Pope Gregory XVI, Encyclical Mirari Vos:…[T]he discipline sanctioned by the Church must never be rejected or be branded as contrary to certain principles of natural law. It must never be called crippled, or imperfect or subject to civil authority. In this discipline the administration of sacred rites, standards of morality, and the reckoning of the rights of the Church and her ministers are embraced.
Pope Leo XIII, Apostolic Letter Est Sane Molestum:But obedience must not limit itself to matters which touch the faith: its sphere is much more vast: it extends to all matters which the episcopal power embraces. For the Christian people, the bishops are not only the teachers of the faith, they are placed at their head to rule and govern them; they are responsible for the salvation of the souls whom God has entrusted to them, and of which they will one day have to render an account. It is for this reason that the Apostle St. Paul addresses this exhortation to Christians: “Obey your prelates, and be subject to them. For they watch as having to render an account of your souls” [Heb. 13:17].
Topic: Origin of Marylike Standards of Modesty (Read 1197 times)