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Author Topic: Advice Needed Regarding Modesty of Touch  (Read 685 times)

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Offline ServusMariae

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Advice Needed Regarding Modesty of Touch
« on: November 11, 2019, 10:54:19 AM »
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    • Hi, everyone,

    I need your input on something. I have a close friend who is very dear to me and so I take caution in watching out for his soul. In my humble opinion, I believe that he is too liberal in the touch which he gives to women at times. For example, he has a sister-in-law whom he tries to be a big brother to. But, I think he goes too far since we mortal human beings are easily aroused by touch. I doubt that he evil intentions. But, he will often hug her or put one arm around her sacrum, peck her on the head, hold her hand for extended periods of time if she is confessing that she is going through hardship, and even says that he loves her. Of course, he means that in a spiritual way.

        Correct me if I am wrong, but his behavior does not seem right to me. It seems like he is providing an occasion of sin to such women especially since he is good looking as well. Is there anything in moral theology or in the teachings of holy saints which recommends modesty in terms of touch? Thank you!
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    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Advice Needed Regarding Modesty of Touch
    « Reply #1 on: November 11, 2019, 12:03:02 PM »
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    • Quote from: ServusMariae on November 11, 2019, 10:54:19 AM
    Hi, everyone,

    I need your input on something. I have a close friend who is very dear to me and so I take caution in watching out for his soul. In my humble opinion, I believe that he is too liberal in the touch which he gives to women at times. For example, he has a sister-in-law whom he tries to be a big brother to. But, I think he goes too far since we mortal human beings are easily aroused by touch. I doubt that he evil intentions. But, he will often hug her or put one arm around her sacrum, peck her on the head, hold her hand for extended periods of time if she is confessing that she is going through hardship, and even says that he loves her. Of course, he means that in a spiritual way.

        Correct me if I am wrong, but his behavior does not seem right to me. It seems like he is providing an occasion of sin to such women especially since he is good looking as well. Is there anything in moral theology or in the teachings of holy saints which recommends modesty in terms of touch? Thank you!
    I can't speak with certitude, but it sounds like he subconsciously wants pleasurable, sensual contact with a woman, and is getting as close to "the edge" as he can, while ostensibly remaining within the bounds of decency in his own mind.  Does the woman in question object to this, tolerate this, or actually enjoy the physical attention?


    It is not necessary for him to be touching her in that fashion, and it is not necessary for her to tolerate it. 


    I have known of a couple of cases like this.  
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    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Advice Needed Regarding Modesty of Touch
    « Reply #2 on: November 11, 2019, 01:17:28 PM »
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    • I think he's probably crossing a boundary here and being a little too close with his sister-in-law. While I doubt he's being malicious about it, I think at least subconsciously he's doing it because he enjoys feminine contact, and as such he's creating the possibility for an occasion of sin for either of them. While he may see his sister-in-law as his little sister, biologically they aren't related at all, so there is the risk one or both of them will develop an attraction and it could become problematic. It is a tough thing to correct him on though, it's an awkward topic to broach, but I think you should encourage him to keep a bit more of a distance.
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    Offline SusanneT

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    Re: Advice Needed Regarding Modesty of Touch
    « Reply #3 on: November 11, 2019, 05:59:30 PM »
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    • Definitely he should not have any unnecessary physical contact with her unless her husband is aware of and happy with it. 
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Advice Needed Regarding Modesty of Touch
    « Reply #4 on: November 11, 2019, 08:11:01 PM »
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    • Quote from: forlorn on November 11, 2019, 01:17:28 PM
    I think he's probably crossing a boundary here and being a little too close with his sister-in-law. While I doubt he's being malicious about it, I think at least subconsciously he's doing it because he enjoys feminine contact, ...

    Completely agree.  It's not pure altruism that's motivating him to touch her ... to comfort HER, etc.  He's clearly getting something out of the contact, and it's dangerous ... and inappropriate.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Advice Needed Regarding Modesty of Touch
    « Reply #5 on: November 11, 2019, 08:12:32 PM »
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    • Quote from: SusanneT on November 11, 2019, 05:59:30 PM
    Definitely he should not have any unnecessary physical contact with her unless her husband is aware of and happy with it.

    I don't think that it's appropriate even if the husband approves.  There are some men who even "approve" of the "swinging" lifestyle.

    As a woman, you might not understand it, but unless the man is a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ, forlorn hit it on the nose.  Women often touch one another in an emotional way.  Just ask yourself this -- Would this perpetrator of the contact touch a man in exactly the same way ... even, say, his younger brother.  Absolutely not.  There might be SOME contact there, but not to the point of holding his hand for extended periods, etc.  Women would certainly touch one another that way, but men would not.  Consequently, a man touching a woman this way means that there's just a little bit more there.  It need not be explicitly sensual, but there's definitely, as forlorn put it, at the very least some comfort being gained from the feminine contact that is inappropriate.
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    Offline Clemens Maria

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    Re: Advice Needed Regarding Modesty of Touch
    « Reply #6 on: November 11, 2019, 08:41:09 PM »
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    • Is his name Creepy Joe Biden?




    Does that look appropriate?  No morally upright person would think it was appropriate.  Avoid democrats.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Advice Needed Regarding Modesty of Touch
    « Reply #7 on: November 11, 2019, 08:44:45 PM »
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    • Quote from: Clemens Maria on November 11, 2019, 08:41:09 PM
    Is his name Creepy Joe Biden?

    Yes, Creepy Joe entered my mind too as I was reading this thread.
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    Offline Endoplasmic Reticulum

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    Re: Advice Needed Regarding Modesty of Touch
    « Reply #8 on: November 11, 2019, 09:10:05 PM »
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    • She could be leading him on, but even if she's not, and this is habitual behavior, it takes two to tango. Even if he is initiating it, she needs to put the distance between herself and him. She needs to make the man understand not to be so touchy. It's her responsibility, if her husband is too lame to see what's happening and the potential sin that can arise. The more she allows it, the more the guilt lies with her.
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    Offline ServusMariae

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    Re: Advice Needed Regarding Modesty of Touch
    « Reply #9 on: November 12, 2019, 12:27:54 AM »
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    • @SimpleMan - The woman does not object.

    Thanks for your advice, everyone. I rebuked him and he said that I was correct. He received the correction with graciousness as well.
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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Advice Needed Regarding Modesty of Touch
    « Reply #10 on: November 12, 2019, 06:34:12 AM »
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    • Quote from: ServusMariae on November 11, 2019, 10:54:19 AM
    Correct me if I am wrong, but his behavior does not seem right to me. It seems like he is providing an occasion of sin to such women especially since he is good looking as well. Is there anything in moral theology or in the teachings of holy saints which recommends modesty in terms of touch? Thank you!
    It's not right and I doubt there is anything in moral theology on it because the whole touchy feely idea is a part of and came in with the Novus Ordo - and it's still going strong. It most often makes the one needing comfort, at least awkwardly uncomfortable.   
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

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