Author Topic: Abuse and the Irish Church (Read 892 times)

John Grace · « **on:** January 20, 2014, 11:46:10 AM »

Ggreg made some comments here.

http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=29526&min=5&num=5

Quote

And their child abuse cases there per head of population were worse than most other countries I believe. Given it is such a small country the numbers were very high in the Irish church. I also believe the abuse cases in Ireland were very bad long before the second Vatican council. At least I seem to remember reading that.

I remember the then Justice Minister stating the Brits are to blame to explain the corporal punishment among the Christian Brothers.

Graham · « **Reply #1 on:** January 20, 2014, 11:57:48 AM »

He may be thinking of this report:

http://www.childabusecommission.ie/rpt/ExecSummary.php

Keep in mind that this commission deliberately, as a matter of methodology, did not put anyone to cross examination or question any of the stories people told them. To do so would have been insensitive, of course, and would have taken time and money, unnecessary because the public is already primed to think ill of priests. This methodological fault destroys whatever scientific value the report might have had, but who cares.

John Grace · « **Reply #2 on:** January 20, 2014, 11:59:57 AM »

Quote from: Graham

He may be thinking of this report:

http://www.childabusecommission.ie/rpt/ExecSummary.php

Keep in mind that this commission deliberately, as a matter of methodology, did not put anyone to cross examination or question any of the stories people told them. To do so would have been insensitive, of course, and would have taken time and money, unnecessary because the public is already primed to think ill of priests. It also destroys whatever scientific value the report might have had, but who cares.

A few years the LKC in England did up a very good leaflet to counter the media storm and spin.

Graham · « **Reply #3 on:** January 20, 2014, 12:02:48 PM »

Quote from: John Grace

Quote from: Graham
He may be thinking of this report:

http://www.childabusecommission.ie/rpt/ExecSummary.php

Keep in mind that this commission deliberately, as a matter of methodology, did not put anyone to cross examination or question any of the stories people told them. To do so would have been insensitive, of course, and would have taken time and money, unnecessary because the public is already primed to think ill of priests. It also destroys whatever scientific value the report might have had, but who cares.

A few years the LKC in England did up a very good leaflet to counter the media storm and spin.

Could you locate and post that leaflet?

My sense is that a lot of people are making money off of this.

John Grace · « **Reply #4 on:** January 20, 2014, 12:07:20 PM »

Quote from: Graham

Quote from: John Grace
Quote from: Graham
He may be thinking of this report:

http://www.childabusecommission.ie/rpt/ExecSummary.php

Keep in mind that this commission deliberately, as a matter of methodology, did not put anyone to cross examination or question any of the stories people told them. To do so would have been insensitive, of course, and would have taken time and money, unnecessary because the public is already primed to think ill of priests. It also destroys whatever scientific value the report might have had, but who cares.

A few years the LKC in England did up a very good leaflet to counter the media storm and spin.

Could you locate and post that leaflet?

My sense is that a lot of people are making money off of this.

Fisheaters seems to be only place where a PDF is available. It's from a few years ago needs an update.

http://www.fisheaters.com/files/abuse-bw.pdf

John Grace · « **Reply #5 on:** January 20, 2014, 12:12:15 PM »

Let's get it straight: Irish child abuse was perpetrated by the trendy, modern post-Vatican II Catholic Church

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/geraldwarner/100018182/lets-get-it-straight-irish-child-abuse-was-perpetrated-by-the-trendy-modern-post-vatican-ii-catholic-church/

soulguard · « **Reply #6 on:** January 20, 2014, 12:44:06 PM »

That is an excellent article and well worth reading. I am surprised it came from the main stream media, because it sounds like something one would see on an SSPX website. The Traditional Catholic faith movement has the foundations of success, it is controversial, and will endure, and will be in ascent until it is dominant again.

ggreg · « **Reply #7 on:** January 20, 2014, 02:12:56 PM »

I thought the Ryan report referred to some pretty shocking cases in the 1940s.

I find it hard to believe this stuff comes out of a clear blue sky. Vatican II did not suddenly bring this rot into the seminaries. The seminary directors did not suddenly change their entrance requirements and seek out perverts and pederasts. It would take at least a generation for perverted seminarians to become admissions directors.

Sure, there was a sɛҳuąƖ revolution in the 1960s but for most people that meant sleeping with the opposite sex as adults. I don't see how you would get a sudden spike of child abuse. These things percolate they don't spike.

Not much direct evidence, of course, because it is too long ago. The abusers are dead and the victims very old or dead themselves. But one must also remember that pre Vatican II few victims would have come forward because the stigma attached to accusing a priest of such a thing was enormous. You would have been made a total pariah in your town, the cops would have disbelieved you and the community would have closed ranks on you big time, the media would not have dared to take your side or report the case. Many many people must have feared reporting abuse under those circuмstances.

Tiffany · « **Reply #8 on:** January 20, 2014, 03:44:56 PM »

Ggreg I was told it was the same way in the United States in the sixties from a relative. Parents would side with the abuser and this was the norm and it was done by priest who the parents thought they knew well.