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Author Topic: Abortion Bill in Leinster House  (Read 1617 times)

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Offline John Grace

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Abortion Bill in Leinster House
« on: April 18, 2012, 09:41:25 AM »
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  • Some news from Ireland

    http://catholiclawyersblog.wordpress.com/2012/04/10/limited-access-to-abortion-legislation-introduced-into-irish-parliament-is-set-to-be-a-strikingly-totlitarian-abortion-law-including-abortions-without-consent-for-unsuspecting-women/
    Quote
    “Limited access to abortion legislation” introduced into Irish Parliament is set to be a strikingly totalitarian abortion law. Will include abortions without consent for unsuspecting women.

    Daly’s Bill seeks to allow doctors to abort the babies of pregnant women whose life they consider to be at risk, even where the woman has not consented  to the abortion of her child

    By calling her bill The Medical Treatment (termination of pregnancy in case of risk to life of pregnant woman) Bill 2012, Clare Daley TD, abortion stalwart, obviously seeks to indicate that what has hitherto been a serious criminal offence in Ireland should now be seen as lifegiving  treatment available to pregnant women.

    However the Irish public should be made aware of the following observations that a preliminary legal reading of the proposed abortion/medical treatment bill reveal:

    1) Daly seeks to effectively repeal the criminal law prohibiting abortion in relation to those abortions which fall within her Bill. Given the wide reaching provisions in her Bill, this would make the criminal law against abortion in the Republic a dead letter. (Part 1Section 3 (1))

    This is a bold move, as even the Abortion Act in Britain only presents  a defence to the criminal law, where as Daly seeks to obliterate the criminal legislation.

    2) Daly’s Bill uses the tried and tested phrase  “substantial risk” also found other abortion legislation such as the Abortion Act 1967 etc. A phrase that can be widely interpreted and expanded.

    3) Daly’s Bill seeks to force conscientious objectors to carry out abortions. Section 5 of the Bill (Obligation to provide medical treatment) is dressed up as a get out clause for medical practitioners who dont want to take part in the vivisevtion of unborn infants. It reads very like the conscious objection clause which was cunninlgly inserted into the Termination on Pregnancy Guidelines in the North of  Ireland. This clause was attacked by a High Court Judge in Belfast and was one of the reasons SPUC won a case against the Department of Health overturning the Guidelines.

    4) Section 6 of Daly’s Bill seeks to allow doctors to abort the babies of pregnant women whose life they consider to be at risk, even where the woman has not consented  to the abortion of her child. For clarity the Bill states in its Explanatory Memorandum:

    “Subsection 2 provides that  in the absence of a means to detrmine whether a woman consents to such treatment as is provided for under this Bill and in a situation whereby her life is at immediate risk, a medical practitioner maybe pressumed to have obtained consent from the woman”.

    It’s worth reading Section 6 and the above explanation a couple of times as most people, including abortion supporters, will not believe this is actualy in the Bill. However it is nothing new and it is also copied from the failed Northern Irish guidance.

    5) Section 6 automaticaly overrules parental consent for underage girls.

    6) The icing on the abortionist cake has to be Section 7, which makes Pro Life activity an offence. This Bill provides that “harrassment, intimidation or otherwise obstructing” abortion providers is to be a criminal offence attracting imprisonment and fines.

    The Bill is due to be voted on in the Dail on the 19th April 2012. God willing it will fail. However it is a sad indictment of the present state of affairs in Irish politics that such a Bill even exists.

    What of the great debate in the democratic freespeaking Irish political circles and media? Silence prevails……….


    http://catholiclawyersblog.wordpress.com/2012/04/16/socialist-architect-of-the-irish-pro-abortion-bill-admits-that-medical-necessity-is-not-the-issue/

    http://catholiclawyersblog.wordpress.com/2012/04/14/socialist-abortion-bill-in-irish-parliament-seeks-to-make-abortion-legal-to-full-term-no-limitations/


    Offline John Grace

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    Abortion Bill in Leinster House
    « Reply #1 on: April 18, 2012, 09:47:51 AM »
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  • Our women folk did a great job the other day outside Leinster House.

    http://www.youthdefence.ie/latest-news/women-say-abortion-proposals-not-made-in-our-name/
    Quote
    WOMEN SAY ABORTION PROPOSALS 'NOT MADE IN OUR NAME'.APR. 12, 2012
    Hundreds of women and children from throughout the country have joined pro-life groups Youth Defence, Life Institute and Precious Life at the Dáil to tell TDs and Senators that proposals to legalise abortion are "not made in our name", and that the evidence shows Irish women are safer without abortion.

    At a colourful protest, featuring pink banners and music, women from all around the country handed in letters to every TD and Senator calling on them to reject legislation that would introduce abortion.

    Senator Jim Walsh and Deputy Terence Flanagan came to collect letters from constituents at the event.

    "We're here to send an important message from the majority of Irish women to Enda Kenny and to every TD and Senator," said spokeswoman Niamh Uí Bhriain of the Life Institute. "We're mothers and daughters and sisters and grandmothers, and we know that women and children deserve better than abortion. Furthermore the record shows we are safer without abortion, so why are this group of politicians trying to introduce abortion in our name? It's unacceptable to misrepresent Irish women in this way."

    Ms Uí Bhriain said that the letters pointed out that the evidence of the past 20 years had shown that the lives of Irish women were protected without recourse to abortion and that, according to the UN, Ireland was, in fact, the safest place in the world for a mother to have a baby.

    The pro-life event took place ahead of a debate scheduled for the Dáil on a Private Members Bill proposed by Clare Daly and Mick Wallace which seeks to legalise abortion.

    Ms Uí Bhriain said that the Bill was based on a "fundamentally dishonest claim that abortion is needed to protect women's lives. This claim amounts to the worst type of scaremongering, and polls show that it is rejected by the majority of Irish women," she said."Clare Daly and her cohorts were elected on an anti-austerity platform and they have no mandate to try and foist abortion on the Irish people," she added.

    Amongst those attending today were women who were treated for life-threatening conditions while pregnant, and who had learnt at first hand that abortion was not required to save their lives. In recent weeks, the prestigious medical journal, The Lancet published findings which showed that, contrary to what had been practised in other jurisdictions, abortion was not required to treat women who had breast cancer while pregnant.

    Rebecca Roughneen of Youth Defence said that the absolute lack of regard shown by abortion campaigners for the lives of unborn children was "totally at odds with how most Irish women view the child in the womb."

    The pro-life spokeswoman said that it was important for the government to realise that they were obliged to honour the pro-life promise they had given before Election 2011, and the majority of Irish women were sick and tired of being misrepresented by small groupings of pro-abortion campaigners.

    Motions before the Labour Party conference this weekend include several calling for abortion legislation, including provisions for abortion-on-demand.


    Offline John Grace

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    Abortion Bill in Leinster House
    « Reply #2 on: April 18, 2012, 09:51:30 AM »
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  • The news report is in Irish language.

    Protest against abortion outside the Dail with Life Institute 12.4. 2012



    Mná na hÉireann (Women of Ireland)

    Offline John Grace

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    Abortion Bill in Leinster House
    « Reply #3 on: April 20, 2012, 01:46:27 PM »
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  • http://www.advertiser.ie/mayo/article/51451/mulherins-fornication-statements-described-as-primitive
    Quote
    Mulherin's 'fornication' statements described as primitive

    By Joan Geraghty

    Mayo Fine Gael TD and solicitor Michelle Mulherin, whose puzzling contribution during a Dáil debate on the X case yesterday, in which she declared that “fornication . . . is probably the single most likely cause of unwanted pregnancies in this country” has sparked a furore that continues to run and run this weekend.

    During the debate, the UCD Law Graduate and former Mayor of Ballina issued a rambling, statement as follows: “I am against abortion in any form myself. The grace of God is so liberating and provides so many options to get the best out of life despite our fall in nature, and we all have that. Having said that it is an ideal to aim for. In an ideal world there would be no unwanted pregnancies and no unwanted babies. But we are far from living in an ideal world. An honest and a scriptural view is that things are getting harder for people, so what then for the weak in our society?

    “Abortion as murder, therefore sin, which is the religious argument, is no more sinful, from a scriptural point of view, than all other sins we don’t legislate against, like greed, hate and fornication. The latter, being fornication, I would say, is probably the single most likely cause of unwanted pregnancies in this country.”

    The remarks went viral on national, international, and social media within moments with commentators to websites primarily questioning the use of the old-fashioned term ‘fornication’ (and its various dictionary and biblical definitions in regard to (unlawful) sɛҳuąƖ intercourse between parties not married to each other) in this day and age by a modern TD such as Ms Mulherin.

    A sample of comments reacting to her Dáil contribution on the politics.ie website included:

    “There was no fornication in Ireland before TV.”

    “I'm none the wiser as to whether she is speaking in favour of or against abortion legislation. Is she saying abortion is no worse than other sins we don't proscribe or is she saying that there should be no legislation in this case?”

    “You have to credit her for having the brains of the century – last year she managed to fornicate €1,000 in allowances every week from the Irish taxpayer.”

    Other comments included, from disillusioned: “I swear yer TDness I caught it off a toilet seat/jacuzzi/bicycle seat.”

    “Fornication FFS? What century is she living in?”

    “But I thought it was the bird and the bees. Somebody has been telling me lies”

    “The spirit of Alice Glenn is alive and well in Fine Gael.”

    “Clearly the Fine Gael party is in safe hands for the future.”

    There were also some favourable comments such as: “She was pointing out that the religious arguments for legislating against abortion don't stack up because the sin of fornication is just as grave according to the church but there is no one trying to legislate for that.”

    Elected as one of four Fine Gael TDs for Mayo in 2011, Michelle Mulherin was the first female councillor for Fine Gael elected to Ballina Town Council in 1999 and was also elected to Mayo County Council as Fine Gael’s first female county councillor.

    The private members bill on the X Case which was raised in the Dáil yesterday (Thursday) by socialist TD Clare Daly proposing to make abortion legal for pregnant women whose lives may be at risk, was eventually defeated 109 votes to 20, with Fianna Fáil voting against and Sinn Féin in favour. Following the debate, Ms Daly attacked Deputy Mulherin for her “primitive views”, saying: “It was a very astute observation on her part generally speaking that pregnancy does arise from sex. I thought at first it was a moment of merriment but the woman said it with a straight face.”

    Ms Mulherin’s Fine Gael TD colleagues in Mayo were uncontactable yesterday and a spokesperson confirmed that the party was ‘making no comment’ on the story.

    Speaking on Matt Cooper’s The Last Word programme on Today FM following the furore yesterday, Deputy Mulherin, asked to explain her ‘fornication’ remarks, said she had spoken “open and honestly” on the issue before stumbling into further ramblings after being asked for her definition of fornication, to which she replied: “Fornication is not a word I invented, it refers to consensual sex between adults outside of marriage; we have moved towards more responsibility on the individual; in the 70s a married couple could not have legal sex without the say of their doctors on contraception; ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity was also illegal, all on religious grounds.

    “The first thing is we need to have debates to move things along and arrive where we can be comfortable in a society legislating on things that have a moral element to them. We look to the issue of abortion, there are approximately 4,500 women who feel for various reasons they need to go to the UK for an abortion, in a lot of cases and anecdotally in a lot of cases, we know people are having a lot of casual sex and pregnancies are happening that are not wanted.

    “We need a discussion around who is having unprotected sex; around issues such as AIDS as well as pregnancy that can happen; there is an elephant in the room, let’s take responsibility for women, it’s about a bigger debate of how we get there.”

    She was stopped in her monologue by presenter Matt Cooper, who called on Socialist TD Clare Daly, who had raised the X case issue in the Dáil to respond. Dep Daly said: “We thought fornication meant sex for pleasure – such an outdated term that a deputy would even use – what is Deputy Mulherin saying? In 2012, that people who are not married, that this is the cause of unwanted pregnancy? That is simply not true. To link somebody’s family status as being the source of an unwanted pregnancy is disgusting in the modern age. There are people the length and breadth of this country thinking this is a Monty Python sketch - that someone in this day and age can even come out with such a statement – but it is clearly a minority view that was met with gasps when stated in the Dáil.”

    Deputy Mulherin’s ramblings continued to descend into farce as she continued, as below, before eventually being cut off mid flow by presenter, Matt Cooper, reminding her she was a Government TD, .

    “She can turn it into a joke. Take religion out of it. Where people are perhaps engaging, I’m surmising here, in casual encounters, where people are obviously not using protection, people are thinking this is the end of my life, I need to have an abortion; what I feel has nearly happened in this country is for years we have had morality shoved down our throat and I don’t agree but now we have the flip side and people are saying, let’s face it, to get an abortion, but let’s talk about the consequences, the flip of religiosity isn’t promiscuity; but if people are being driven in a certain way towards sɛҳuąƖ intercourse for pleasure is there something darker here, why can’t we talk about that?”

    Offline John Grace

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    Abortion Bill in Leinster House
    « Reply #4 on: April 25, 2012, 08:58:34 AM »
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  • http://catholiclawyersblog.wordpress.com/2012/04/20/abortion-bill-in-irish-dail-is-defeated-but-its-not-a-time-for-celebration/
    Quote
    Although the abortion Bill, tabled by Socialists, was defeated today in the Dail, people should be wary of being complacent about the continuing threat to Irish children. It was a bad day for Irish Politics and Irish babies, all we can say is it could have been worse.

    Sinn Fein, voted in FAVOUR of the abortion Bill. In total 20 members of the Dail voted in favour of this extreme abortion legislation, wherein abortion would be allowed to full term.

    Although a majority of 109 voted against this Bill, a number of the people voting agaisnt the Bill clearly stated that they were not doing so because abortion was murder and wrong, but because of technical and legal wrangling. The Minister for Health actually thanked Daly for tabling the Bill saying:

    I will begin by thanking the Members opposite for raising this important issue. I acknowledge they do so from the best of motivations and for the right reasons. (Deputy James Reilly)

    So presumably the Catholic legislators of Ireland either don’t know, or don’t care, about the canonical penalties for supporting abortions? Excommunication and being barred from recieving Hoy Communion.

    I would anticipate that the Committee set up by the Government to discuss the ABC case will provide the framework for some kind of watered down abortion bill later in the year. The ground work has been done by Daly and the warm reception which the Bill received in some quarters means that the abortion fanatics will not waste much time.

    A search of the Oireachtas website shows that the words murder and killing were not used at all during the debate.  ( However the Members have in the past dealt with the killing of badgers, pilot whales, seals and songbirds, which presumably would put the minds of the Irish people at rest, lest their representatives be thought to have lost their moral bearings).

    The Dail debate could not have been more different that the debate in Stormont, on the same issue , in 2007. During this debate a clear message was sent out to the world that :

    Life commences at conception, and it is at that point that the child becomes a real person Thomas Buchanan DUP

    Mr Buchana also stated:

    During the course of this one-and-a-half-hour debate, 70 to 80 unborn children will have been murdered through abortion. The methods of abortion are often horrific, with up to 80% carried out by suction curettage, which virtually pulls the baby apart limb by limb.

    This was just one of a number of bold assertions in favour of the inviolable right to life of the Unborn Child.

    However legislation to allow for abortion is phrased, abortion is always the deliberate killing of an Unborn Child.


    Offline John Grace

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    Abortion Bill in Leinster House
    « Reply #5 on: April 26, 2012, 02:41:14 PM »
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  • Quote
    Here Oliver J. Flanagan (1920-1987), former Fine Gael TD for Laois-Offaly, voices his opposition to the hesitancy of the then Taoiseach Dr Garret FitzGerald on the subject of the proposed Pro-Life Amendment.