Juvenalis:

Your advice is sound Cato, but it is another thing entirely to say "Dont go to college" or "too bad". Youre saying be responsible, I'm saying trade school, Lighthouse is saying "take it or leave it" and as Telesphorus points out, no post high school education isnt exactly an option.

Alternatives that can't be done are the only ones that are "not an option".  Alternatives that can be done but you don't want to do when all you need is to you hold your nose and plead your need it to survive in the present situation
are a moral choice.

It's hard to get ahead today without sleeping with the boss. Does that make such behavior the lone option?

How many young people are in a position to make enough to make ends meet, pay for college tuition, have adequate time to study, without having to borrow money?

It's almost as bad as complaining about young people borrowing to buy a house.

We have a lot of Clarence Potter style thinking among trads.

A lot of folks borrow for college before they are responsible and knowledgeable enough to realize what they are getting into.

But then they have the usurious payback to handle later, that quite disillusions them as to the reality of it all.

I am among the most debt free people around, I have no credit card, I didn't borrow any money to go to school (2.5 years tech college) I like to work with cash only, I don't even really like my debit card...

I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for people foolish enough to rack up $100k debt on basket weaving or 'womyns studies' degrees, but I don't think it is right to ignore the massive pressure that young people just coming out of highschool get from society, parents and peers to have to go to college.  When your 18 years old and coming out of a public school or a typical NO catholic school for that matter, how much reasoning skills are you going to have? From my experience, not a heck of a lot...  90% of kids are just going to go with the flow, do what everybody is telling them to do.

Another factor to consider is the massive inflation (and student debt bubble) in college tuition that is happening right now, I think most of us if we graduated even 10 years ago, don't appreciate just how expensive even a basic education is getting (even if you are trying to do it right).

Here is a decent article that highlights some of the problems:

http://www.zerohedge.com/node/469376

Like I said above I don't like debt or even credit cards, but the reality is that it is getting harder and harder every year to live like this.  Want or need to travel? Try booking a flight, renting a car or even booking a hotel room with out a credit card.  Not going to happen.  Want to live in your own home? Try saving up money to buy one outright.  There are very few areas that have cheap housing anymore (say under $80k) and those areas that do usually have very few decent paying jobs, that is why the housing is cheap.

If credit was hard to get (like 30-40 years ago), do you think people would be trying to sell a house for $300K+ for cash? Or worse yet, if you couldn't get easy credit on a depreciating asset like a car, do you think Ford/GM etc would be selling Super Lariat Denali Escalades for $40k+ ? No they would have to make cars that people could afford to buy (with cash or nearly) like in the old days.  It is even crazier now, the big box furniture stores even allow you to take out loans to buy their garbage made in China furniture now.  Want a big 72" TV to get your JєωProp on? Here is an easy payment plan just for you!!

Thank goodness, this sick usurious system won't last forever. It is plainly obvious to anyone with eyes to see and willing to do a little bit of research (and turn off the TV). I honestly wouldn't be surprised if what sets this whole worldwide stinking heap off is not the Middle East but a Pope that takes the first baby steps to restoring Holy Church to her Tradition.  Then it's On, like Donkey Kong! Remember this is a spiritual war we are in, for souls.  That I believe is the key, what is keeping this whole mess propped up, is the fact that the only Ark of Salvation, the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church is 'on the ropes'.  But we know who wins in the end, we have to promise of our Blessed Lord, " the gates of hell shall not prevail against it".

Hang on to your hats folks! Pray the Rosary every day!

Luke

Sure, I wasn't criticizing your post Iuvenalis.

Borrowing money is optional for those who have the option of receiving adequate amounts of it from others.

I didnt take anything youve posted as critique.

I was addressing the two extremes of the discussion generally, not you specifically.

Quote from: Tiffany

Quote from: Iuvenalis

It's a problem of going to college in the first place.

Every middle class and working class parent tells their kids, "college, college, college!"

And the skilled trades go unfilled. Trade school is often an excellent ROI (return on investment). Welders, plumbers, electricians, pipefitters, diesel mechanics, etc make solid livings here, and there arent enough of them.

Most trade schools are part of colleges now

Nope

Quote from: Tiffany

and the price is beyond what an unskilled person could pay for after living expenses.

I'm saying *in lieu of college, so the same sacrifices (i.e. living with parents or working part-time while attending less than fulltime) would apply. However, you'd actually have a chance at a job.

Just like college, some are affordable, some are not. One needs to shop around and choose college (and major) with debt and cost in mind.

Trade school is/would be no different.

Yes, most are part of colleges. Some of the private ones are not and their tuition is ridiculous and higher than the state colleges.

Sacrifices that involve other people supporting you - like living with parents? That is having parental support, other people's money, whatever you want to call it.

How do you survive paying for your basic living expenses while working an unskilled job part-time?  

Student loans! Tell me about it. I must say though that I remember reading the first book by Fr. Saint-Jure in Trustful Surrender to Divine Providence and that he explains that however unjust a loan maybe, God wills it for our greater good.