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Author Topic: A real Catholic College  (Read 6709 times)

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Offline CatholicinFL

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A real Catholic College
« on: December 10, 2013, 04:51:48 PM »
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  • I recently found out about this college http://fishermore.edu/

    Does anyone have any friends or relatives attending? Or has anyone even heard of this place?

    I plan on going there but it seems they're having financial issues and need donations. I talked to a man there and he said that they will find out in a few weeks if they will be able to continue their operation beyond December. It would stink if they closed, Fisher More seems to be a great (if not the best) option for people like us.


    Offline Petertherock

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    A real Catholic College
    « Reply #1 on: December 10, 2013, 05:38:26 PM »
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  • Great college, they sent me some stuff asking for donations. I wish I had something to give them because they are very worthy of it.



    Offline ggreg

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    « Reply #2 on: December 10, 2013, 05:47:28 PM »
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  • I just read the prospectus and they don't appear to teach anything practical or useful.

    Employers want maths, science, business, accounting, finance, computer programming and engineering degrees not liberal arts.

    Why don't they teach maths, chemistry, physics, Java and Ruby on Rails?

    Offline ggreg

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    « Reply #3 on: December 10, 2013, 06:07:10 PM »
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  • It's kind of a shame that Catholics as smart as they believe they are cannot innovate with education and lead the world again as they did in the past.

    I mean, with the technological development of the Internet it is really kinda sorta insane that people are still clustering together in buildings and doing stuff like they have done it for 500 years.  Why not work out what is required by employers and reverse engineer a different type of learning to achieve that goal?

    - - extract. --

    If you wanted a liberal arts education in 1499, you were probably out of luck. But, if you happened to be a 0.01 percenter, you might have been able to saddle up the horse and ride to Oxford or Cambridge. Because that’s where the books were. Books didn’t generally come to you, you had to go to them.

    Today, every one of us has more works of art, philosophy, literature, and history at our fingertips than existed, worldwide, half-a-millennium ago. We can call them up, free or for a nominal charge, on electronic gadgets that cost little to own and operate. Despite that fact, we’re still captives to the idea that a liberal arts education must be dispensed by colleges and must be acquired between the ages of 19 and 22.

    But the liberal arts can be studied without granite buildings, frat houses, or sports venues. Discussions about great works of literature can be held just as easily in coffee shops as in stadium-riser classrooms—perhaps more easily. Nor is there any reason to believe that there is some great advantage to concentrating the study of those works in the few years immediately after high school—or that our study of them must engage us full-time. The traditional association of liberal arts education and four-year colleges was already becoming an anachronism before the rise of the World Wide Web. It is now a crumbling fossil.

    Handing colleges tens of thousands of dollars—worse yet, hundreds of thousands—for an education that can be obtained independently at little cost, would be tragically wasteful even if the college education were effective. In many cases, it is not. Research by Richard Arum and Josipa Roksa reveals that almost half of all college students make no significant gains in critical thinking, complex reasoning, or written communication after two full years of study. Those are skills that any liberal arts education should cultivate. Even among the subset of students who linger for four years at college, fully one-third make no significant gains in those areas.

    And yet, instead of recognizing the incredible democratization of access to the liberal arts that modern technology has permitted, and the consequent moribundity of this role of colleges, public policy remains mired in a medieval conception of higher education. Politicians compete to promise what they think young people want to hear: more and larger subsidies for college fees. Even if perpetuating a 15th century approach to higher education were in students’ interests—which it clearly is not—increased government subsidies for college tuition would not achieve that goal. We have tripled student aid in real, inflation-adjusted dollars since 1980, to roughly $14,000 per student, and yet student debt recently hit an all-time high of roughly $1 trillion. And barely half of students at four-year public colleges even complete their studies in six years. Aid to colleges is good for colleges, but it is an outlandish waste of resources if the goal is to improve the educational options available to young people.

    These same realities apply, to an only slightly lesser extent, to the sciences and engineering. In those areas, colleges sometimes have equipment and facilities of instructional value that students could not independently afford. But even in the sciences and engineering, such cases are limited. It is perfectly feasible for an avid computer geek to learn everything he or she needs to know to work in software engineering by doing individual and group projects with inexpensive consumer hardware and software. This was even possible before the rise of the Web. My first direct supervisor at Microsoft was a brilliant software architect hired right out of high school… in the 1980s.

    Though most politicians have been slow on the uptake, the public seems increasingly aware of all this. A Pew Research survey finds that 57 percent Americans no longer think college is worth the money. So why are they still sending their kids there? Habit is no doubt part of the picture, but so is signaling. People realize that colleges are instructionally inefficient, but being accepted to and graduating from an academically selective one signals ability and assiduity to potential employers.

    So what’s the solution? Alternative signaling options and better hiring practices would be a good start. Anyone who studies hard for the SAT, ACT, GRE, or the like, and scores well, can send the academic ability signal. But in the end, employers want more than academic ability. What they really want are subject area expertise, a good work ethic, an ability to work smoothly with a variety of people, and, for management, leadership ability. Any institution that develops good metrics for these attributes, and issues certifications accordingly, will provide an incredibly valuable service for employers. Students would then be free to study independently, occasionally paying for instruction where necessary, and then seek a certification signaling what they’ve learned. In the meantime, job candidates can create a portfolio of work on the Web showing what they know and can do (a “savoir faire”)—which would be more useful to employers than most resumes.

    What is certainly not useful is raising taxes still further in a time of economic difficulty in order to pad the budgets of colleges and encourage students to take on yet more college debt.

    Offline PereJoseph

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    « Reply #4 on: December 10, 2013, 06:14:23 PM »
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  • Quote from: ggreg
    I just read the prospectus and they don't appear to teach anything practical or useful.


    If their goal is to form Catholic gentlemen who can influence Catholic society, educating them in the liberal arts is quite practical and useful.  If the goal is for them to get jobs to further advance the global economy and budding international urban culture, then they could follow your advice.

    Quote
    Employers want maths, science, business, accounting, finance, computer programming and engineering degrees not liberal arts.  Why don't they teach maths, chemistry, physics, Java and Ruby on Rails?


    If somebody wants to not be educated and is only interested in gaining a skill set for short-term employment, they can study those things.  But if somebody wants to be an educated man and therefore contribute something profound to the world, they should actually study the liberal arts.


    Offline icterus

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    « Reply #5 on: December 10, 2013, 06:14:24 PM »
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  • This is sort of local to me.  Local people (who are more traditional than me, BTW) are saying "malfeasance".  

    I see a lot of these threads lately...are they based on anything more than the emails we've all received?  

    Offline CatholicinFL

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    « Reply #6 on: December 10, 2013, 06:15:46 PM »
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  • Well ggreg, do you know of any engineer grads getting hired right after graduation? Or Maths? Or Chemists? I in fact know of none, I do know of an accountant waiting tables and an engineer who isn't engineering. But I do know that with a liberal arts degree you aren't confined to a particular profession or "job." Not to mention you become "educated" and have the ability to think critically. Also it seems to be one of the only Catholic colleges around, I hear people on this forum complaining about how awful college is in general and it seems these other places offer all the "practical" stuff. So which is it? go to a party school booze up and get loaded every night and become "practical" and unemployed. Or go learn how to be a better Catholic among Catholics while being truly educated? Which one?

    Offline ggreg

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    « Reply #7 on: December 10, 2013, 06:19:08 PM »
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  • You should be able to think critically simply by being well parented.



    Offline icterus

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    « Reply #8 on: December 10, 2013, 06:23:41 PM »
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  • I was in line at the WalMart sporting goods counter the other day, talking with a recent graduate Ave Maria college.  He was telling me about his degree in Literature.  The counter-person perked up and said "Hey, I have a degree in Literature, too!".  

    Some things are too perfect.

    Offline CatholicinFL

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    « Reply #9 on: December 10, 2013, 06:23:47 PM »
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  • Quote from: ggreg
    You should be able to think critically simply by being well parented.



    I could concede that fact partially, just imagine how much more you could be after being educated.

    But ggreg, you didn't answer my question....

    Offline ggreg

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    « Reply #10 on: December 10, 2013, 06:24:35 PM »
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  • Quote from: CatholicinFL
    Well ggreg, do you know of any engineer grads getting hired right after graduation? Or Maths? Or Chemists? I in fact know of none, I do know of an accountant waiting tables and an engineer who isn't engineering. But I do know that with a liberal arts degree you aren't confined to a particular profession or "job." Not to mention you become "educated" and have the ability to think critically. Also it seems to be one of the only Catholic colleges around, I hear people on this forum complaining about how awful college is in general and it seems these other places offer all the "practical" stuff. So which is it? go to a party school booze up and get loaded every night and become "practical" and unemployed. Or go learn how to be a better Catholic among Catholics while being truly educated? Which one?


    Experts everywhere have been making robust predictions for the growth of "Stem" jobs (science, technology, engineering and maths) - and so far they don't seem to be wrong. Engineering graduates performed well in the job market last year, with 85.4 per cent landing either a job or further education within six months.

    Medical, medical tech, veterinary and dentistry have employment rates up in the 90 percent range.

    Source telegraph.co.uk


    Offline icterus

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    « Reply #11 on: December 10, 2013, 06:31:55 PM »
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  • Oh dear!  Real statistics!  Whatever shall we do?

     :roll-laugh1:

    Offline PereJoseph

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    « Reply #12 on: December 10, 2013, 06:32:43 PM »
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  • Quote from: CatholicinFL
    Or go learn how to be a better Catholic among Catholics while being truly educated? Which one?


    And then just get your "practical" degree afterwards after you've built a foundation.  Tens of millions of people don't need to have this sort of educational foundation and acuмen; indeed, most people are not suited to it.  Modern education, by contrast, tries to form as many people as possible to fill skill niches to service the global economy and the social engineering projects of the UN.  

    Living in a cubicle, buying a McMansion, shopping at big box stores, having cheaply-made consumer products and the ability to stay up with all the social media trends, having enough time to go out to restaurants at nights and meet strangers for sinful encounters, or else to have the ability to send your kids through the same matrix -- what a great life the world is being given !  They can be happy without actually being happy, since happiness is now a commodity bottled and packaged by Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ.  It's like alchemy or logical positivism.  As long as they can convince everybody to believe the lie, it can be treated as true.  If they accept the simulacrum, they can get the goods without any of the suffering or effort -- the solution to the world's problems.  Eviscerating any expectations of natural or supernatural happiness as classically understood means that happiness can be sold to people without them ever obtaining it.  It's social and political usury.  Brilliant.

    Offline CatholicinFL

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    « Reply #13 on: December 10, 2013, 06:34:33 PM »
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  • Quote from: ggreg
    Quote from: CatholicinFL
    Well ggreg, do you know of any engineer grads getting hired right after graduation? Or Maths? Or Chemists? I in fact know of none, I do know of an accountant waiting tables and an engineer who isn't engineering. But I do know that with a liberal arts degree you aren't confined to a particular profession or "job." Not to mention you become "educated" and have the ability to think critically. Also it seems to be one of the only Catholic colleges around, I hear people on this forum complaining about how awful college is in general and it seems these other places offer all the "practical" stuff. So which is it? go to a party school booze up and get loaded every night and become "practical" and unemployed. Or go learn how to be a better Catholic among Catholics while being truly educated? Which one?


    Experts everywhere have been making robust predictions for the growth of "Stem" jobs (science, technology, engineering and maths) - and so far they don't seem to be wrong. Engineering graduates performed well in the job market last year, with 85.4 per cent landing either a job or further education within six months.

    Medical, medical tech, veterinary and dentistry have employment rates up in the 90 percent range.

    Source telegraph.co.uk


    "landing EITHER a job OR further education"

    I wonder how many of that percent decided to keep going because they couldn't get hired?

    And yes Medicine will always grow, it is possible to go Pre-Med in some post-bacc programs, that is after an education at Fisher More.

    Oh and you have dodged my question yet again...

    Offline icterus

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    « Reply #14 on: December 10, 2013, 06:39:30 PM »
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  • Pere wrote:

    Quote
    Living in a cubicle, buying a McMansion, shopping at big box stores, having cheaply-made consumer products and the ability to stay up with all the social media trends, having enough time to go out to restaurants at nights and meet strangers for sinful encounters, or else to have the ability to send your kids through the same matrix -- what a great life the world is being given !


    What an ugly imagination you have.  Around here, among Catholics, a solid technical job means 'Being able to afford all of the children God gives you."