Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Catholic Living in the Modern World => Topic started by: Angel9 on May 18, 2013, 04:18:51 PM
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Do you think that girls should wear T-shirts, or do you think that makes them look manly? :boxer:
(please don't give me a thumbs down, I am just asking a innocent question)
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Under their clothes?
I only wear a t-shirt as an undershirt.
Women should not generally wear t-shirts. Almost never, I think.
Maybe if they're painting on a hot day.
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Do you mean those Hanes 3-packs of white T-shirts? Those are kind of thin, usually.
If you're talking about more solid ones, that come in various colors, sometimes with designs or print on them, and are usually a bit more baggy, I don't see what anyone could object to. (unless they were old & thin, too tight, or had vulgar messages on them)
A loose-fitting T-shirt is quite modest. It would go well with a denim or other skirt, especially if you're going to be working/playing outdoors.
Not every woman can find (or make) affordable dresses. Skirt/shirt combination is much more reasonable to come by. Especially depending on the woman's figure.
We can't expect women to wear their nice "Sunday" clothes 24/7. That is simply too expensive.
Unless the man is wealthy, of course. You know -- someone who aspires to live in the city, make 6 figures, etc. We have someone like that on CathInfo, and he doesn't get along very well with Telesphorus.
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Are you speaking of men's underwear type "T" shirts or those colored big shirts, some might have a printed picture or text on the front or back.
My opinion is this: since my husband passed away, I find myself wearing his underwear "T"s to bed, they are very comfy.
The other ones if they are big enough I modest enough for women. It is the culture of the day.
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We can ask women to be modest -- to conceal rather than reveal, don't be too vain, etc.
What we CAN'T reasonably ask is for them to be some kind of objects for our visual pleasure and amusement -- to flit around in nothing but frilly dresses because that's what "turns us on" or what we have a "thing" for.
Do you know that many women object to MODEST CLOTHING for that very reason? They confuse men asking for modesty with men trying to put them on a pedestal, or wanting women to conform to their own "hang-ups".
Which is why we should always distinguish. It's not about what I/we "prefer", it's not about our "hang-ups", it's about being objectively modest and not leading men into sin.
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Clothes are so expensive that women need to dress in t-shirts?
that is ridiculous.
T-shirts are sloven and immodest.
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There's nothing traditional about defending women wearing t-shirts and saying that it requires being well-off to wear more than a t-shirt!
Some people are clearly becoming argumentative for the sake of scoring points.
Did women typically go about in t-shirts before Vatican II, regardless of their level of income?
Printed t-shirts are some of the tackiest clothes a person (any person) can wear.
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Wow, the temptation to please women is just overwhelming for some people.
Would I want a wife or girlfriend or daughter to go about in a t-shirt?
What kind of Catholic would prefer that?
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The Catholic Church doesn't dictate a particular fashion for women.
All it does dictate is MORALITY and the standards of MODESTY.
Women have plenty of leeway to come up with various patterns of fabric that will do the job (modesty).
Women don't have to look like Little House on the Prairie, or any other century. But they DO have to look modest, even if that means standing out like a sore thumb.
You can throw accusations around all day long, but you're not talking with a liberal. I believe women must always wear skirts or dresses, even at home. Pants and shorts are an abomination for women (unless they wear them under said skirt/dress)
I don't know what exactly you have a problem with regarding T-shirts.
You say T-shirts are immodest. Pray tell why? They don't show off any of the female form.
I think we're talking about two different things.
Have I banned too many liberals from CathInfo? -- you seem to be itching to have a few around to argue with. You're even starting to snipe at your own side.
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I'd like to know who believes that women should wear skirts but they should also wear t-shirts with those skirts?
Nothing could be more ridiculous than the petulance of woman-pleasers.
They will gladly contradict themselves to appear more "easy-going" - and accuse others of "hang-ups"
It's not a hang-up to say women shouldn't wear t-shirts, anymore than it's a hang-up shouldn't wear pants.
It's just common sense.
Some people are losing it.
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The Catholic Church doesn't dictate a particular fashion for women.
So then, you accept jeans and a t-shirt for women?
I could say the same thing about opposition to pants.
All it does dictate is MORALITY and the standards of MODESTY.
Common sense comes under prudence. If you don't have the common sense of our ancestors who didn't think it fitting for women to wear t-shirts, I can't help you.
Women have plenty of leeway to come up with various patterns of fabric that will do the job (modesty).
Women don't have to look like Little House on the Prairie, or any other century.
Straw man.
But they DO have to look modest, even if that means standing out like a sore thumb.
You can throw accusations around all day long, but you're not talking with a liberal.
I believe women must always wear skirts or dresses, even at home. Pants and shorts are an abomination for women (unless they wear them under said skirt/dress)
So much for the Church not dictating fashion then.
I don't know what exactly you have a problem with regarding T-shirts.
You say T-shirts are immodest. Pray tell why? They don't show off any of the female form.
They give the impression of being sloven.
Of course they show off the female form to some degree. They are thin hanging materials.
I think we're talking about two different things.
A buxom woman wearing a t-shirt is not being modest.
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No it's not common sense.
Pants accentuate certain parts of the female form; t-shirts only conceal.
If I have to explain it to you, you're too far gone.
At any rate, it's very believable/likely that you have extreme/ivory tower views on how a woman should dress.
Do you have a single Trad woman in your life who has navigated the maze of 2013 to figure out what she will wear on a daily basis?
A girlfriend? wife? trad sister?
Anyhow, we're obviously going to disagree on this issue. You're going to call me a woman-panderer, and I'm going to call you an unrealistic ivory-tower dweller who imposes his own hang-ups on female dressing morality.
We could argue all day, but I have work to do. You know, PAID work, like some guys have.
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No one here is going to be defending men wearing "wife-beaters" and only a few would even defend men wearing t-shirts.
Is a big muscular man in a t-shirt being modest? Not really.
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Pants accentuate certain parts of the female form; t-shirts only conceal.
So if a woman gets caught in the rain in a t-shirt, the t-shirt conceals her adequately compared to other clothes?
Give me a break.
You've been caught being argumentative.
Did women typicallywear t-shirts in the 1950s?
Yet I hear this passionate defense of sloven dress.
It's silly.
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Tele, I know, I know, women should always wear a full-length Burqa. Anything less gives away the full female form, leaving nothing to the imagination.
If you think a loose-fitting, solid color T-shirt gives away the female form, then MAN you need to get married. Like yesterday.
When I hear stuff like this, I really feel sorry for you.
Like my momma always said... never argue with a c... Telesphorus.
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Pants accentuate certain parts of the female form; t-shirts only conceal.
So if a woman gets caught in the rain in a t-shirt, the t-shirt conceals her adequately compared to other clothes?
Give me a break.
You've been caught being argumentative.
Did women typicallywear t-shirts in the 1950s?
Yet I hear this passionate defense of sloven dress.
It's silly.
Tele, let me explain something to you.
T-shirts didn't exist until a certain time.
I think a woman drenched in a dress or anything else is going to be an issue.
Except for maybe a full-length, woolen burqa.
I guess a burqa is the ONLY solution.
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Tele, I know, I know, women should always wear a full-length Burqa. Anything less gives away the full female form, leaving nothing to the imagination.
Grasping at straws. (straw man)
If you think a loose-fitting, solid color T-shirt gives away the female form, then MAN you need to get married. Like yesterday.
When I hear stuff like this, I really feel sorry for you.
personal attack.
Like my momma always said... never argue with a c... Telesphorus.
No Catholic man in the 50s would have let his daughter dress like that.
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Speaking of being woman-panderers --
TIFFANY! WHERE ARE YOU! PLEASE CHIME IN ON THIS THREAD, PLEASE!~
:popcorn:
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Tele, I know, I know, women should always wear a full-length Burqa. Anything less gives away the full female form, leaving nothing to the imagination.
I wish Catholic women would wear clothing more like burquas. It is a shame to see pagans more modest than Catholics.
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Well, you've heard it from Matthew:
Anyone opposed to women dressing slovenly in t-shirts supports burkas.
Look at the style of argument you use.
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I've wasted enough time on a __ually frustrated man.
I need to get my paid work done now.
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I wish Catholic women would wear clothing more like burquas. It is a shame to see pagans more modest than Catholics.
just the idea of mandatory skirts and t-shirts in combination is a bit crazy.
No, for the whole history of Christendom women dressed with more decorum than that, but now it's a sign of having "issues" to be against this slackness.
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Do you mean those Hanes 3-packs of white T-shirts? Those are kind of thin, usually.
If you're talking about more solid ones, that come in various colors, sometimes with designs or print on them, and are usually a bit more baggy, I don't see what anyone could object to. (unless they were old & thin, too tight, or had vulgar messages on them)
A loose-fitting T-shirt is quite modest. It would go well with a denim or other skirt, especially if you're going to be working/playing outdoors.
Not every woman can find (or make) affordable dresses. Skirt/shirt combination is much more reasonable to come by. Especially depending on the woman's figure.
We can't expect women to wear their nice "Sunday" clothes 24/7. That is simply too expensive.
Unless the man is wealthy, of course. You know -- someone who aspires to live in the city, make 6 figures, etc. We have someone like that on CathInfo, and he doesn't get along very well with Telesphorus.
Yes, I am talking about the solid ones with designs and print on them. One time when I was wearing a T-shirt with logos on it, my sister said that I look like a billboard.
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Yes, I am talking about the solid ones with designs and print on them. One time when I was wearing a T-shirt with logos on it, my sister said that I look like a billboard.
That's what those who wear those prints are doing. Using their torsos as billboards.
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Anyway,
I am asking this question because tomorrow, my churches young adult group
(which consists of teens) is getting together together to play whiffle ball, and dodge ball, and stuff that would be easier to play in a T-shirt, and a long flowy skirt. And my sister is playing in her church clothes and will attempt to be a lady tommorow, and is telling me that I should wear something nicer, and I am telling you right now............... NOT HAPPENING! I was asking what you all thought(pretty much just Mathew and Telephosphorus) and I got my answer.
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As corrupt as the NO is the St Vincent De Paul Societies still help the poor with things like clothing. If you go to any SVDP thrift store and ask them for clothing they will let you pick out 2 oufits and if you are in a cold climate a jacket for each family member. Most places also have some kind of charity that will give you clothing or a voucher at a thrift store. Any crisis pregnancy center will give you baby clothes, diapers, and maternity clothing or a gift card to buy some. Children's clothing is everywhere. Just open your mouth and people will start giving you bags of clothes to where you will be giving them back to the thrift store.
I wrote this before but the trad priest need to encourage and support women and teenage girls sewing until it becomes part of our lifestyle. It takes very basic sewing skills to sew something like a cape dress. I have a sewing machine now because someone gave me one. There is no reason why chapels couldn't buy a few sewing machines, rulers, mats, hire an instructor and have one day a week where teenage girls and women with older children sew. It's much easier to do when you have a dedicated place and space and of course ladies like to socialize. :)
It's not easy when you have no money for clothing. For a long time I only had short-sleeved dresses that my neighbor bought for me, so I wore a sweat shirt style jacket over them that someone gave else me because it had a hole in the hood. It wasn't very feminine but it was more modest than the short sleeve and it hides shape more. My point is loose cardigan sweaters, and shawls, (or sweat jackets if you have nothing else - those always seem to be in bags that are given to others or in abundance at thrift stores) can really help adapt if all you have is short sleeves.
Most people have some money for clothing..it seems like they want to look a certain way, the issues is not really they cannot buy modest clothing. How many times I have heard mothers of teenage girls give the excuse not to buy modest clothing because they say "She will look like her grandmother."
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Yes, I am talking about the solid ones with designs and print on them. One time when I was wearing a T-shirt with logos on it, my sister said that I look like a billboard.
That's what those who wear those prints are doing. Using their torsos as billboards.
Thanks
Now I regret saying that :devil2:
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I've wasted enough time on a __ually frustrated man.
I need to get my paid work done now.
This thread is hilarious. A girl asks about t-shirts for her teen group whiffle ball game, and this is where we wind up.
edit: I mean to say, in light of what Angel9 said about why she's asking, the preceding argument became funny to me.
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Thanks
Now I regret saying that :devil2:
Angel, you should have given the context of the question. Clothing worn for sport is of course going to be different than typical outer wear.
Is this going to be coed sport of girls playing against girls?
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Anyway,
I am asking this question because tomorrow, my churches young adult group
(which consists of teens) is getting together together to play whiffle ball, and dodge ball, and stuff that would be easier to play in a T-shirt, and a long flowy skirt. And my sister is playing in her church clothes and will attempt to be a lady tommorow, and is telling me that I should wear something nicer, and I am telling you right now............... NOT HAPPENING! I was asking what you all thought(pretty much just Mathew and Telephosphorus) and I got my answer.
Wear your normal church clothes and both of you sit out for the games. Is this a trad chapel where they are having young women play doge ball?
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This thread is hilarious. A girl asks about t-shirts for her teen group whiffle ball game, and this is where we wind up.
She asked about t-shirts in general.
T-shirts on women as outer wear aren't traditional. Period.
Really, they shouldn't be typically worn by men as outerwear.
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Thanks
Now I regret saying that :devil2:
Angel, you should have given the context of the question. Clothing worn for sport is of course going to be different than typical outer wear.
Is this going to be coed sport of girls playing against girls?
These games are going to be boys and girls ranging from 14 to 19.
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Anyway,
I am asking this question because tomorrow, my churches young adult group
(which consists of teens) is getting together together to play whiffle ball, and dodge ball, and stuff that would be easier to play in a T-shirt, and a long flowy skirt. And my sister is playing in her church clothes and will attempt to be a lady tommorow, and is telling me that I should wear something nicer, and I am telling you right now............... NOT HAPPENING! I was asking what you all thought(pretty much just Mathew and Telephosphorus) and I got my answer.
Wear your normal church clothes and both of you sit out for the games. Is this a trad chapel where they are having young women play doge ball?
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These games are going to be boys and girls ranging from 14 to 19.
So now will someone be defending coed sports?
Those who are against coed sports have "hang-ups"?
The Church doesn't teach against coed sports?
Is this the sort of feminist - style "reasoning" we're going to be subjected to if we say we're against coed sports?
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Thanks
Now I regret saying that :devil2:
Angel, you should have given the context of the question. Clothing worn for sport is of course going to be different than typical outer wear.
Is this going to be coed sport of girls playing against girls?
These games are going to be boys and girls ranging from 14 to 19.
Is this a trad chapel that is doing this?
I encourage you to sit out and have your sister sit out too.
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Thanks
Now I regret saying that :devil2:
Angel, you should have given the context of the question. Clothing worn for sport is of course going to be different than typical outer wear.
Is this going to be coed sport of girls playing against girls?
These games are going to be boys and girls ranging from 14 to 19.
Is this a trad chapel that is doing this?
I encourage you to sit out and have your sister sit out too.
Obviously you don't encourage fun events
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Sorry my long response was to Matthew about the no funds, not about your t-shirts Angel, I didn't quote.
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k
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Is this thread a joke?
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Thanks
Now I regret saying that :devil2:
Angel, you should have given the context of the question. Clothing worn for sport is of course going to be different than typical outer wear.
Is this going to be coed sport of girls playing against girls?
These games are going to be boys and girls ranging from 14 to 19.
Is this a trad chapel that is doing this?
I encourage you to sit out and have your sister sit out too.
Obviously you don't encourage fun events
Angel,
I have spent a good portion of my adult life finding, volunteering, and sometimes organizing/coordinating/setting up social/sports/game events for my child.
Now that he is a little older I've also done a small bit for young ladies that we know.
It's inappropriate for young women and men to be playing sports together like that. Again I encourage you and your sister to sit out, and do not participate.
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Is this thread a joke?
(http://[URL=http://s270.photobucket.com/user/Myrnanne/media/modest.jpg.html][IMG]http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj108/Myrnanne/modest.jpg)[/URL][/img]
Even Tele's girlfriend is laughing!
Just kidding Telesphorus!
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I don't see how T-shirts can be such a controversial topic. I wear them all the time. It's the only thing really practical to wear for many things I do- especially work that requires short or rolled up sleeves, when it's very warm outside. T-shirts are not traditional, but that doesn't make them immoral.
Considering the many problems in the world today, I don't think that how men and women attire themselves, as long as it is modest and suitable, should be such a concern. Do you think that on my Judgement Day, Our Lord is going to be concerned with whether I wore a green T-shirt when I was shearing sheep? Even if it did have completely unobjectionable print on it?
Just because something wasn't done before VII doesn't mean that to do it now is immoral! If that's the case, I certainly shouldn't be on this computer right now.
Some trad Catholics have a very gloomy and strange view of how we should live. I've even heard some say that it's often objectionable to laugh and that to show one's teeth when they smile is uncouth. I really don't undertand that point of view.
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I wouldn't necessarily object to wearing t-shirts outside on a hot day, or maybe around the home sometimes.
Overall, though, I don't care much for t-shirts on women.
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[/quote]
Angel,
I have spent a good portion of my adult life finding, volunteering, and sometimes organizing/coordinating/setting up social/sports/game events for my child.
Now that he is a little older I've also done a small bit for young ladies that we know.
It's inappropriate for young women and men to be playing sports together like that. Again I encourage you and your sister to sit out, and do not participate.
[/quote]
that might be immpossible to do, since 15 kids who are all very good friends are getting together every month to spend quality time with one another, it would be a shame to not participate
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I don't see how T-shirts can be such a controversial topic. I wear them all the time. It's the only thing really practical to wear for many things I do- especially work that requires short or rolled up sleeves, when it's very warm outside. T-shirts are not traditional, but that doesn't make them immoral.
Considering the many problems in the world today, I don't think that how men and women attire themselves, as long as it is modest and suitable, should be such a concern. Do you think that on my Judgement Day, Our Lord is going to be concerned with whether I wore a green T-shirt when I was shearing sheep? Even if it did have completely unobjectionable print on it?
Just because something wasn't done before VII doesn't mean that to do it now is immoral! If that's the case, I certainly shouldn't be on this computer right now.
Some trad Catholics have a very gloomy and strange view of how we should live. I've even heard some say that it's often objectionable to laugh and that to show one's teeth when they smile is uncouth. I really don't undertand that point of view.
No, we will even be judged for how we dress at home.
Please note that I said "as long as it is modest and suitable". Obviously, to wear immodest clothing is a sin, and as such, we will be judged for it.
A modest T-shirt is not sinful. Objectively, it covers all that it needs to and as long as it fits properly, there is absolutely no immodesty involved.
I know that some people feel that it is very important to be dressed extremely well all the time, and view T-shirts and such as casual clothes that have no business being worn under normal circuмstances. They are welcome to their opinion. However, there is no Church dogma stating that to wear casual clothing in your normal day-to-day life is a sin. It's a preference. We are given free will and may exercise it as we please.
Women aren't under an obligation to dress extremely attractively all the time.
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I don't see how T-shirts can be such a controversial topic. I wear them all the time. It's the only thing really practical to wear for many things I do- especially work that requires short or rolled up sleeves, when it's very warm outside. T-shirts are not traditional, but that doesn't make them immoral.
Considering the many problems in the world today, I don't think that how men and women attire themselves, as long as it is modest and suitable, should be such a concern. Do you think that on my Judgement Day, Our Lord is going to be concerned with whether I wore a green T-shirt when I was shearing sheep? Even if it did have completely unobjectionable print on it?
Just because something wasn't done before VII doesn't mean that to do it now is immoral! If that's the case, I certainly shouldn't be on this computer right now.
Some trad Catholics have a very gloomy and strange view of how we should live. I've even heard some say that it's often objectionable to laugh and that to show one's teeth when they smile is uncouth. I really don't undertand that point of view.
No, we will even be judged for how we dress at home.
Please note that I said "as long as it is modest and suitable". Obviously, to wear immodest clothing is a sin, and as such, we will be judged for it.
A modest T-shirt is not sinful. Objectively, it covers all that it needs to and as long as it fits properly, there is absolutely no immodesty involved.
I know that some people feel that it is very important to be dressed extremely well all the time, and view T-shirts and such as casual clothes that have no business being worn under normal circuмstances. They are welcome to their opinion. However, there is no Church dogma stating that to wear casual clothing in your normal day-to-day life is a sin. It's a preference. We are given free will and may exercise it as we please.
Women aren't under an obligation to dress extremely attractively all the time.
Yeah, I edited my response, so please disregard what I wrote. I misunderstood what you were saying.
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I wonder what mathew will think when he sees this thread.
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Yeah, I edited my response, so please disregard what I wrote. I misunderstood what you were saying.
That's okay, I have those moments too. I just wanted to clarify. :)
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This thread is one of the funniest things I have read in a long, long time.
Threads like these are the reason why every time I look at Cathinfo I can't help but think of all of the old ugly Pharisees from The Passion of the Christ.
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Angel,
I have spent a good portion of my adult life finding, volunteering, and sometimes organizing/coordinating/setting up social/sports/game events for my child.
Now that he is a little older I've also done a small bit for young ladies that we know.
It's inappropriate for young women and men to be playing sports together like that. Again I encourage you and your sister to sit out, and do not participate.
[/quote]
that might be immpossible to do, since 15 kids who are all very good friends are getting together every month to spend quality time with one another, it would be a shame to not participate [/quote]
ETA: I think it's great there is an organized social time for the youth.
Be sure there are adult (parent's age not young adult) chaperones there.
What about having a meal or dessert together, singing, doing crafts with the girls like scrapbooking, a service project, chess, checkers, scrabble. Let the young men play sports together and you can do something else with your girlfriends.
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Yea Tiffanny we have that covered
we have 2 chaperones at every get together.(parents)
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The view of t-shirts as being underwear and vulgar for outer wear is definitely rooted in a subjective preference for an era rather than a true aspect of the Faith or Catholic tradition.
T-shirts normally have sleeves and higher necklines. It's easy to find styles that are not form-fitting. There's not much that can be argued against them in terms of modesty. They don't have to be thin or slovenly, unless you specifically buy thin or slovenly looking ones. Nor do they have to be billboards if you don't want those. That it would not have been done in the 50's is the closest thing to a real argument presented here against them but that doesn't stand alone as definitive. It would if the goal of a traditional Catholic were simply to return to the 50's but it's not.
I can understand having personal preferences, but t-shirts are so varied in use, design and fabric now, it's pretty impossible to make any kind of blanket statements about them.
I can't think of any trad girl I know who wouldn't wear a jean skirt and t-shirt to a casual afternoon like that.
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I don't see how T-shirts can be such a controversial topic. I wear them all the time. It's the only thing really practical to wear for many things I do- especially work that requires short or rolled up sleeves, when it's very warm outside. T-shirts are not traditional, but that doesn't make them immoral.
Considering the many problems in the world today, I don't think that how men and women attire themselves, as long as it is modest and suitable, should be such a concern. Do you think that on my Judgement Day, Our Lord is going to be concerned with whether I wore a green T-shirt when I was shearing sheep? Even if it did have completely unobjectionable print on it?
Just because something wasn't done before VII doesn't mean that to do it now is immoral! If that's the case, I certainly shouldn't be on this computer right now.
Some trad Catholics have a very gloomy and strange view of how we should live. I've even heard some say that it's often objectionable to laugh and that to show one's teeth when they smile is uncouth. I really don't undertand that point of view.
No, we will even be judged for how we dress at home.
Please note that I said "as long as it is modest and suitable". Obviously, to wear immodest clothing is a sin, and as such, we will be judged for it.
A modest T-shirt is not sinful. Objectively, it covers all that it needs to and as long as it fits properly, there is absolutely no immodesty involved.
I know that some people feel that it is very important to be dressed extremely well all the time, and view T-shirts and such as casual clothes that have no business being worn under normal circuмstances. They are welcome to their opinion. However, there is no Church dogma stating that to wear casual clothing in your normal day-to-day life is a sin. It's a preference. We are given free will and may exercise it as we please.
Women aren't under an obligation to dress extremely attractively all the time.
Friends of mine live on a farm. They have animals and plants of every kind. -) The girls only wear dresses. They have home/work dresses, going out for errands dresses, and church dresses.
Their home dresses, sweaters, and jackets are very worn. It's not about dressing extremely attractive all the time.
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This thread is one of the funniest things I have read in a long, long time.
Threads like these are the reason why every time I look at Cathinfo I can't help but think of all of the old ugly Pharisees from The Passion of the Christ.
So I take it you think t-shirts on women and coed sports are fine, but you are the same one who denies that St. Mary's is liberalizing.
They weren't fine for our ancestors.
You're part of the cult group that says that Vatican II enlightens Catholic Tradition and that the New Mass was legitimately promulgated, while its leaders within a few months say the New Mass is evil and speak against Vatican II.
You're a mind-numbed cultist looking for an excuse to smear Catholics as pharisees for not approving post-Vatican II slackness in dress.
You can't even admit flagrant dishonesty staring you in the face, that's how members of the cult operate. They're proud of being willfully blind.
And if it means smearing someone else as a pharisee for believing in traditional standards of decorum, in order to cover up for the cult, you do it in a heart beat.
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Speaking of being woman-panderers --
TIFFANY! WHERE ARE YOU! PLEASE CHIME IN ON THIS THREAD, PLEASE!~
:popcorn:
very nice Matthew
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Friends of mine live on a farm. They have animals and plants of every kind. -) The girls only wear dresses. They have home/work dresses, going out for errands dresses, and church dresses.
Their home dresses, sweaters, and jackets are very worn. It's not about dressing extremely attractive all the time.
So what does it matter if a woman dresses-down while at home?
A T-shirt isn't immodest; that's all there is to it.
Do you never wear T-shirts, Tiffany?
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The view of t-shirts as being underwear and vulgar for outer wear is definitely rooted in a subjective preference for an era rather than a true aspect of the Faith or Catholic tradition.
No, it's rooted in the design and use of t-shirts. They are designed to be utilitarian, informal, unisex. Catholic common sense needs to be applied, and while different times have different ideas of fashion, there is no doubt that t-shirts are slack.
It's the same slackness that encourages coed sport.
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are full length pajamas immodest?
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Speaking of being woman-panderers --
TIFFANY! WHERE ARE YOU! PLEASE CHIME IN ON THIS THREAD, PLEASE!~
:popcorn:
very nice Matthew
I don't mind Telesphorus having a friend, but he's a hypocrite. When I happen to agree with some female posters, I'm pandering to women.
When he has some women on his side, "it's totally different".
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FWIW, I'm against co-ed sports, for reasons of principle.
It has to do with behavior, modesty, the difference between the sexes, proper training for adult life, etc.
Tele, are you TRYING to throw straw man arguments out there?
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Speaking of being woman-panderers --
TIFFANY! WHERE ARE YOU! PLEASE CHIME IN ON THIS THREAD, PLEASE!~
:popcorn:
very nice Matthew
I don't mind Telesphorus having a friend, but he's a hypocrite. When I happen to agree with some female posters, I'm pandering to women.
When he has some women on his side, "it's totally different".
There should be little difference in our standards for things modest dress and appropriate behavior. It should not matter if we are BFF since elementary school or don't speak the same language.
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The view of t-shirts as being underwear and vulgar for outer wear is definitely rooted in a subjective preference for an era rather than a true aspect of the Faith or Catholic tradition.
No, it's rooted in the design and use of t-shirts. They are designed to be utilitarian, informal, unisex. Catholic common sense needs to be applied, and while different times have different ideas of fashion, there is no doubt that t-shirts are slack.
Yes there is a doubt. You aren't very good at being objective, or rising above the culture you grew up in.
A T-shirt is just a piece of cotton fabric sewn to cover one's upper torso. When properly sized, they happen to conceal the various "details" of anatomy, so they certainly pass Catholic muster when it comes to morality, modesty, and decency.
If you can still see that a woman is wearing that shirt (as opposed to a man), GUESS WHAT? All women on earth aren't going to go out tomorrow and get double-mastectomies just so you can stop being tempted.
You're telling me that a buxom woman in a dress has no visible "bumps"? Give me a break.
If a woman is wearing proper...ahem...garments... and wearing a loose-fitting T-shirt, there's nothing that can be more concealing except maybe a burqa. I'm actually serious, not facetious.
If you still can't stop thinking about what's under that pile of clothes, again, I feel sorry for you, and I pray you find a spouse so your temptations can end. It has to be rough being 36, unmarried, and WANTING to be married for years on end.
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This thread is one of the funniest things I have read in a long, long time.
Threads like these are the reason why every time I look at Cathinfo I can't help but think of all of the old ugly Pharisees from The Passion of the Christ.
So I take it you think t-shirts on women and coed sports are fine, but you are the same one who denies that St. Mary's is liberalizing.
They weren't fine for our ancestors.
You're part of the cult group that says that Vatican II enlightens Catholic Tradition and that the New Mass was legitimately promulgated, while its leaders within a few months say the New Mass is evil and speak against Vatican II.
You're a mind-numbed cultist looking for an excuse to smear Catholics as pharisees for not approving post-Vatican II slackness in dress.
You can't even admit flagrant dishonesty staring you in the face, that's how members of the cult operate. They're proud of being willfully blind.
And if it means smearing someone else as a pharisee for believing in traditional standards of decorum, in order to cover up for the cult, you do it in a heart beat.
No Tele, I am not in favor of coed sports.
But I agree with Matthew that modest T-shirts are not a problem.
The rest of your post is mere personal attack.
And my remarks about Pharisees was not directed at you personally. It's what I see as the pervasive attitude on Cathinfo.
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There is a doubt that t-shirts are slack?
So you would wear a t-shirt to church?
In company other than family?
So, there is no doubt there is some degree of slackness in t-shirts.
So then the question becomes, what is the justification for wearing these slack unisex clothes?
Why weren't they normal in the past? Why are they normal now?
I don't say t-shirts are necessarily sinful to wear, but there is good reason to be against them.
The overreaction my comments are getting has nothing to do with objectivity.
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When he has some women on his side, "it's totally different".
They're the minority, and they're on my side because I very seldom try to please women, and they know it.
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Yes I'm sure all the mothers, sisters, Aunts, older cousins, friends of the family helped make sure young ladies looked and acted like young ladies for centuries because they were dealing with temptations..how ridiculous to make that attack on someone because they have a sense of decency and chastity.
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I can't think of any trad girl I know who wouldn't wear a jean skirt and t-shirt to a casual afternoon like that.
Yeah I do this quite a bit, especially while working outside or doing something inside like painting.I'd also agree with you that t-shirts are so varied nowadays. The one I wore yesterday didn't look manly at all. It had flowers on it.
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Yes I'm sure all the mothers, sisters, Aunts, older cousins, friends of the family helped make sure young ladies looked and acted like young ladies for centuries because they were dealing with temptations..how ridiculous to make that attack on someone because they have a sense of decency and chastity.
I don't think Matthew's attack is based on Tele having a sense of decency. It's based on Tele's inability to consider or separate what's decent and modest from his own personal preference. T-shirts are casual. This is not the same thing as slack or slovenly. You can still very, very easily make sure young ladies look and act like young ladies -- in t-shirts. It's just for more informal situations, that's all.
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Friends of mine live on a farm. They have animals and plants of every kind. -) The girls only wear dresses. They have home/work dresses, going out for errands dresses, and church dresses.
Their home dresses, sweaters, and jackets are very worn. It's not about dressing extremely attractive all the time.
So what does it matter if a woman dresses-down while at home?
A T-shirt isn't immodest; that's all there is to it.
Do you never wear T-shirts, Tiffany?
When I do wear one, it's only with a jacket over it, it's not appropriate just to wear one around my child.
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To wear a t-shirt is to give the impression of being less than fully dressed.
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To wear a t-shirt is to give the impression of being less than fully dressed.
You can dress them up with a pretty scarf.
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Have I banned too many liberals from CathInfo? -- you seem to be itching to have a few around to argue with. You're even starting to snipe at your own side.
That's because the only thing that seems to make Tele happy is looking down from his righteous perch upon those whom he deems not as holy, traditional, anti-liberal/feminist as himself......in other words.....everybody.
Bitter, angry people are only happy when they are fighting with others.
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You all keep saying as long as the T-shirt is modest
is there such a thing as a immodest T-shirt, unless you cut of the sleeves and half way down your side like some people.
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When he has some women on his side, "it's totally different".
They're the minority, and they're on my side because I very seldom try to please women, and they know it.
In other words, they should feel special :)
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No, they just know that I'm right and that I'm not being confrontational for the purpose of scoring points or trying to make someone else look bad.
I don't think much of wearing t-shirts as outerware. It's called having minimal standards.
Those who see it as an opportunity to use the typical feminist style arguments that are used about pants or any other issue like this need to take a step back and look at what they're really doing.
Defending traditional standards of decorum ---> being compared to a Muslim.
That's among trads.
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Have I banned too many liberals from CathInfo? -- you seem to be itching to have a few around to argue with. You're even starting to snipe at your own side.
That's because the only thing that seems to make Tele happy is looking down from his righteous perch upon those whom he deems not as holy, traditional, anti-liberal/feminist as himself......in other words.....everybody.
Bitter, angry people are only happy when they are fighting with others.
I guess you would consider St. John Chrysostom "bitter" for saying this about women who dress immodestly?
“You carry your snare everywhere and spread your nets in all places. You allege that you never invited others to sin. You did not, indeed, by your words, but you have done so by your dress and your deportment. … When you have made another sin in his heart, how can you be innocent? Tell me, whom does this world condemn? Whom do judges punish? Those who drink poison or those who prepare it and administer the fatal potion? You have prepared the abominable cup, you have given the death dealing drink, and you are more criminal than are those who poison the body; you murder not the body but the soul. And it is not to enemies you do this, nor are you urged on by any imaginary necessity, nor provoked by injury, but out of foolish vanity and pride.”
I'm not talking about t-shirts here, my point is that a person who condemns immodesty is not being "bitter". He's being a good Catholic.
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Clothes are so expensive that women need to dress in t-shirts?
that is ridiculous.
T-shirts are sloven and immodest.
...
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/public/cfof-QHI_pw4vY5KVLqQ0sjxD49iJivVvl04a-H7AdJIW1pHdyrpCZcrs1FD3JkUeb78XJGoGcMOFaApB-xPfBUfuEoJ-USNUX8Fq1z_SyvuM9eFTwcVIV3g9u48KvIe1U6KfA3OfTOtU0dlVMdR3bvdAUMXYxzcw4YIn4JQLoQ3C0AbjrgMKeUUFf_OiTUhCfXXMHyHRwpFVtVS9WwoYi-cZgAb_roT64Nyweg=s220-c)
THAT IS IMMODEST? Come on, Tele. Sloven? Really? There is nothing wrong with that T SHIRT!
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Looks like apparel to be worn to sleep in, as Myrna says.
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Anyway,
I am asking this question because tomorrow, my churches young adult group
(which consists of teens) is getting together together to play whiffle ball, and dodge ball, and stuff that would be easier to play in a T-shirt, and a long flowy skirt. And my sister is playing in her church clothes and will attempt to be a lady tommorow, and is telling me that I should wear something nicer, and I am telling you right now............... NOT HAPPENING! I was asking what you all thought(pretty much just Mathew and Telephosphorus) and I got my answer.
Is this a co-ed youth group? Just curious.
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Thanks
Now I regret saying that :devil2:
Angel, you should have given the context of the question. Clothing worn for sport is of course going to be different than typical outer wear.
Is this going to be coed sport of girls playing against girls?
These games are going to be boys and girls ranging from 14 to 19.
:sad:
Oh boy. Not a good idea. A traditional catholic "youth group?"
Let's hear what goes through protestant boys heads when they have to go to "youth group."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQSp9CwVHNM
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Looks like apparel to be worn to sleep in, as Myrna says.
This is actually a longer T shirt for pregnant women. I wear these when I'm not pregnant, as they are flowing and do not form fit, and are good to do chores in. THIS is not immodest.
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Thanks
Now I regret saying that :devil2:
Angel, you should have given the context of the question. Clothing worn for sport is of course going to be different than typical outer wear.
Is this going to be coed sport of girls playing against girls?
These games are going to be boys and girls ranging from 14 to 19.
Is this a trad chapel that is doing this?
I encourage you to sit out and have your sister sit out too.
Obviously you don't encourage "fun" CO ED events
Fixed that for you.
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Looks like apparel to be worn to sleep in, as Myrna says.
This is actually a longer T shirt for pregnant women. I wear these when I'm not pregnant, as they are flowing and do not form fit, and are good to do chores in. THIS is not immodest.
If you wore that in public in 1900 they'd think you were in your underwear.
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It's a thicker fabric. It is not sheer at all. What is so immodest about it?
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Well, it appears "t-shirts" can mean almost any unbuttoned shirt that isn't a sweater or with long sleeves
Let's just go back and use old-fashioned standards when possible. It's not that hard.
A t-shirt on a huge muscular man isn't modest, and neither are most of them on women.
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Tele.
Here are the Mary-like standards, in case you were unaware.
God bless you, friend.
(By the way, T-shirts are not mentioned here as immodest.)
THE MARYLIKE STANDARDS FOR MODESTY IN DRESS
WHAT ARE THE MARYLIKE STANDARDS?
"A dress cannot be called decent which is cut deeper than two fingers' breadth under the pit of the throat;; which does not cover the arms at least to the elbows; and scarcely reaches a bit beyond the knees. Furthermore, dresses of transparent material are improper." (The Cardinal vicar of Pope Pius XI)
1.Marylike is modest without compromise, "like Mary", Christ's Mother.
2.Marylike dresses have sleeves extending at least to the elbows; and skirts reaching below the knees. (NOTE: Because of market conditions, quarter-length sleeves are temporarily tolerated with Ecclesiastical Approval, until Christian womanhood again turns to Mary as the model of modesty in dress.)
3.Marylike dresses require full coverage for the bodice, chest, shoulders and back; except for a cut-out about the neck not exceeding two inches below the neckline in front and in the back, and a corresponding two inches on the shoulders.
4.Marylike dresses do not admit as modest coverage transparent fabrics, laces, nets, organdy, nylons, etc. unless sufficient backing is added. However, their moderate use as trimmings is acceptable.
5.Marylike dresses avoid the improper use of flesh colored fabrics.
6.Marylike dresses conceal rather than reveal the figure of the wearer; they do not emphasize, unduly, parts of the body.
7.Marylike dresses provide full coverage, even after jacket, cape or stole are removed and after assuming a sitting position.
T shirts fulfill all of these requirements. In fact, even if you went with the more liberalized italicized standards there, they would be okay according to the Mary-like standards.
Look again.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/public/cfof-QHI_pw4vY5KVLqQ0sjxD49iJivVvl04a-H7AdJIW1pHdyrpCZcrs1FD3JkUeb78XJGoGcMOFaApB-xPfBUfuEoJ-USNUX8Fq1z_SyvuM9eFTwcVIV3g9u48KvIe1U6KfA3OfTOtU0dlVMdR3bvdAUMXYxzcw4YIn4JQLoQ3C0AbjrgMKeUUFf_OiTUhCfXXMHyHRwpFVtVS9WwoYi-cZgAb_roT64Nyweg=s220-c)
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Women didn't wear t-shirts back then.
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T-shirts are mary-like?
This is too much.
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Not saying that every T shirt is Mary-like. I'm saying that ones that adhere to the Mary-like standards, yes, are indeed, Mary-like.
Women didn't wear t-shirts back then.
Yes, actually, T-shirts probably existed in the 1950s when Mary-like standards were issued.
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There are evil ideologies & forces behind many fashions today. The sodomites & feminist do not hide this.
A t-shirt is not modest wear for grown women.
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There are evil ideologies & forces behind many fashions today. The sodomites & feminist do not hide this.
This part is indisputable.
A t-shirt is not modest wear for grown women.
This part isn't.
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19 pages on T shirts. Really?
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19 pages on T shirts. Really?
:laugh2:
Yeah I kind of think it's silly too, but I think the more important issue is that the OP was having some kind of "fun" co-ed youth group involving physical contact (however incidental it may seem).
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19 pages on T shirts. Really?
Classic Cathinfo thread. Kind of sad, really.
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The issue of body contact sports involving members of both sexes, is one which Tiffany has already dealt with, satisfactorily, I thought.
Is the game you wish to join in the "fun" of a body-contact sport, Angel9?
If so, you would be wise to take Tiffany's advice and sit it out. You can have fun without becoming "one of the boys". Besides boys will be much more appreciative of you if you act like a girl.
Mixed sport is possible, tennis being an example of a sport which does not involve body contact.
I am 67 years old and I've had a lot of fun in my life but never taken part in body sports with men. It was simply unheard of when I was growing up and a teenager. I am pleased that parents will be in attendamce but remember that some parents do not have the wisdom of past years because they too were brought up to think in terms of uni-sex.
A t-shirt can be immodest if it is tight or clingy material as it will them show your outline.
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This thread is a good example of the way in which people will go against traditional values (for example, the value that did not consider t-shirts to be acceptable dress for women for hundreds of years when society was more Christian) in order to go along with authority figures. We really shouldn't be surprised that the SSPX has gotten away with doing what's it's done to the resistance priests in the minds of its warped followers when we see this very dynamic on this very thread.
It's very easy for someone in a prominent position to rally people to the loose position and attack the stricter position, and usually by means of attack on the personality of the person with the stricter position.
t-shirts are bed clothes and underclothes. t-shirts are light fabric that do not fit and cover as traditional clothes because they are thin and loose, typically worn untucked, typically conveying an air of slovenness. t-shirts are unisex (just like pants). t-shirts are not traditional. There's nothing Mary-like in the wearing of the t-shirt. T-shirts wouldn't have been worn by Catholic women of the past.
A teenage girl cracking open a six-pack of beer with her friends in a t-shirt is A-OK for these people. Pants, on the other hand, "are an abomination for women".
I would feel self-conscious wearing a t-shirt in mixed company, (and not just because I'm currently fat!). If my natural modesty is more than these girls they have a big problem.
You want to throw out centuries of tradition to defend sloven dress. The "arguments" (rather invective) Matthew used to defend t-shirts could have been taken word for word from fisheaters posters to defend pants.
You people should really think about the viciousness of the attacks launched against me simply for believing in a higher standard of dress. What it shows you is how quickly "trads" can be made to move towards a more liberal position, scornful of traditional standards (as opposed to a moderate position, which would be more legitimate than the scorn displayed in this thread) when under the influence of authorities.
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This thread is a good example of the way in which people will go against traditional values (for example, the value that did not consider t-shirts to be acceptable dress for women for hundreds of years when society was more Christian) in order to go along with authority figures. We really shouldn't be surprised that the SSPX has gotten away with doing what's it's done to the resistance priests in the minds of its warped followers when we see this very dynamic on this very thread.
It's very easy for someone in a prominent position to rally people to the loose position and attack the stricter position, and usually by means of attack on the personality of the person with the stricter position.
t-shirts are bed clothes and underclothes. t-shirts are light fabric that do not fit and cover as traditional clothes because they are thin and loose, typically worn untucked, typically conveying an air of slovenness. t-shirts are unisex (just like pants). t-shirts are not traditional. There's nothing Mary-like in the wearing of the t-shirt. T-shirts wouldn't have been worn by Catholic women of the past.
A teenage girl cracking open a six-pack of beer with her friends in a t-shirt is A-OK for these people. Pants, on the other hand, "are an abomination for women".
I would feel self-conscious wearing a t-shirt in mixed company, (and not just because I'm currently fat!). If my natural modesty is more than these girls they have a big problem.
You want to throw out centuries of tradition to defend sloven dress. The "arguments" (rather invective) Matthew used to defend t-shirts could have been taken word for word from fisheaters posters to defend pants.
You people should really think about the viciousness of the attacks launched against me simply for believing in a higher standard of dress. What it shows you is how quickly "trads" can be made to move towards a more liberal position, scornful of traditional standards (as opposed to a moderate position, which would be more legitimate than the scorn displayed in this thread) when under the influence of authorities.
Tele, I wear loose fitting long toga-type t-shirts, and I don't ever wear pants. There is nothing immodest about my t-shirts, tyvm. And I didn't personally attack you. Stop trying to play a martyr.
And tele, not everyone has a 6 pack like you. Some of us ladies who have had 8 pregnancies don't like "tucking our shirts in." I think if you saw a woman tuck her shirt in with a skirt with my abs, you would be singing a different song.
(http://theplussideofme.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/rimg_6504.jpg)
She would look a lot better with her shirt untucked.
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PFT even "loose" it's still a garment that has been designed from men's underwear. I don't even like the "t-shirt" dresses they adapt and make for little girls.
T shirts are usually made from a knitted fabric which clings and stretches. I find knitted fabrics to be immodest to wear (except for outer clothing like a coat or shawl) outside of my bedroom. Woven fabrics stretch and cling less.
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Now I have "learn to knit" advertisements showing! :laugh1:
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Sorry, but t-shirts like these are not immodest, and do not look like underwear.
(http://images-p.qvc.com/is/image/a/00/a225000.001?$uslarge$)
(http://images-p.qvc.com/is/image/a/63/a60263.001?$uslarge$)
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And now the poor Tele the martyr act, "trads" is quotation marks for those who dare to disagree with him......next he'll be referring to people as cult members.
It's not about disagreement. The other side is engaging in personal attacks, using exactly the MO of the fisheaters posters on subjects like pants.
What it shows you is how pliable and predictable trads are. And yes, quite nasty, as this post of yours further demonstrates.
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Anyone who understands the implications of Bishop Fellay's preamble and general chapter conditions, while claiming that Bishop Fellay is still resisting Vatican II and the new mass, and does so knowingly, is someone who is fundamentally dishonest.
If he participates in the effort to smear and ostracize those who stand up against the betrayal of Catholic doctrine, then he acts like a member of a cult.
It's typical +Fellay cult behavior: flagrant dishonesty and vile persecution of those who refuse to be cowed from telling the truth.
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Our priest, who is quite strict about modesty, has spoken from the pulpit about modesty on quite a few occasions. He said he finds it edifying to see women wear a tee shirt underneath a dress or shirt that doesn't meet the modesty standards by itself. So in this case, it is more of an "underwear" type of garment.
In the book, "Dressing With Dignity", Colleen Hammond discourages tee shirts with wording on them. It may not be outright immodest, leading others to sin, but it goes against the feminine nature of not trying to advertise, draw attention to oneself. Also, with certain prints, one may ask where does the print on the shirt lead the eye? I don't have the book in front of me, but she gives several standards for determining if a shirt is properly modest in the way it fits.
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Colleen Hammond gave a talk at our church a while ago. My daughter's and wife went. I don't agree with half of what she said. She makes claims without any substance.
Tshirts evil? Let's use prudence people! Tight revealing ones are bad. Loose ones that cover up are fine. Make sense?
The traditional movement gets caught up on the mole hills and loses sight of the mountains sometimes.
Pax.
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A suggestion for ladies who sew:-
If you like the comfort and flexibility of the T-shirt, but not the lack of femininity or lack of dignity, buy t-shirt material (or an inexpensive man's t-shirt in a way-too-large size) and make yourself a button-up or faux button-up blouse. If you plan to be very active, exercise or to be lifting, etc. make it longer than normal. If you want to look dressy, buy printed material according to your needs.
Very cool, comfotable, and modest dresses and skirts can be made from T-shirt knits.
Happy sewing!
Frances.
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Tshirts evil?
Did anyone say they were evil?
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Have I banned too many liberals from CathInfo? -- you seem to be itching to have a few around to argue with. You're even starting to snipe at your own side.
That's because the only thing that seems to make Tele happy is looking down from his righteous perch upon those whom he deems not as holy, traditional, anti-liberal/feminist as himself......in other words.....everybody.
Bitter, angry people are only happy when they are fighting with others.
I guess you would consider St. John Chrysostom "bitter" for saying this about women who dress immodestly?
“You carry your snare everywhere and spread your nets in all places. You allege that you never invited others to sin. You did not, indeed, by your words, but you have done so by your dress and your deportment. … When you have made another sin in his heart, how can you be innocent? Tell me, whom does this world condemn? Whom do judges punish? Those who drink poison or those who prepare it and administer the fatal potion? You have prepared the abominable cup, you have given the death dealing drink, and you are more criminal than are those who poison the body; you murder not the body but the soul. And it is not to enemies you do this, nor are you urged on by any imaginary necessity, nor provoked by injury, but out of foolish vanity and pride.”
I'm not talking about t-shirts here, my point is that a person who condemns immodesty is not being "bitter". He's being a good Catholic.
My post had little to do with Tele's contention that T-shirts are immodest and was a simple observation that his entire demeanor, at least online, is one of a confrontational and bitter crank who is only happy when there is a publican around to condemn and fight with.
I know, and my point was that I find your observation to be incorrect.
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Is this thread a joke?
:laugh1: I don't know, but I have gotten some laughs out of it!
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Our priest, who is quite strict about modesty, has spoken from the pulpit about modesty on quite a few occasions. He said he finds it edifying to see women wear a tee shirt underneath a dress or shirt that doesn't meet the modesty standards by itself. So in this case, it is more of an "underwear" type of garment.
In the book, "Dressing With Dignity", Colleen Hammond discourages tee shirts with wording on them. It may not be outright immodest, leading others to sin, but it goes against the feminine nature of not trying to advertise, draw attention to oneself. Also, with certain prints, one may ask where does the print on the shirt lead the eye? I don't have the book in front of me, but she gives several standards for determining if a shirt is properly modest in the way it fits.
T-shirts with wording on them is different, and especially if they're form fitting. The T-shirts I'm talking about and the pictures I linked do not fit that description.
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Perhaps I can only find button-up shirts that are of lousy quality, but I will not work with livestock and wear a button-up unless I have a pullover garment underneath it or something like a jacket, sweater, etc. over it.
Except much of the time, it is so warm that there's only so many layers I can take, especially during physical labor. Then a T-shirt comes in handy.
Having your button-up blouse pulled open by a goat horn or flying sheep hoof or ear tag is contrary to feminine modesty and dignity.
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Our priest, who is quite strict about modesty, has spoken from the pulpit about modesty on quite a few occasions. He said he finds it edifying to see women wear a tee shirt underneath a dress or shirt that doesn't meet the modesty standards by itself. So in this case, it is more of an "underwear" type of garment.
In the book, "Dressing With Dignity", Colleen Hammond discourages tee shirts with wording on them. It may not be outright immodest, leading others to sin, but it goes against the feminine nature of not trying to advertise, draw attention to oneself. Also, with certain prints, one may ask where does the print on the shirt lead the eye? I don't have the book in front of me, but she gives several standards for determining if a shirt is properly modest in the way it fits.
Good point.
I can attest to the fact that just looking at someone like a person, your eyes will be drawn to the two words on the front of their T-shirt. Then, a split-second later, you realize where exactly you're looking and you quickly look away.
Such a thing HAS to have been done on purpose -- even if the wearers don't always realize this.
And I'm not talking about risque slogans -- I'm talking about just a company name or something -- right across the chest. Where is the eye drawn?
I didn't get to mention this earlier, but it's very true that many T-shirts reduce a human being to a living bulletin board. I would *never* pay anything for such a shirt. However, I have been known (just Monday thru Friday and weekends) to wear all manner of ridiculous designs and prints on T-shirts, because the T-shirts in question were FREE. It's what I wear around the house and when I work outside, so I don't wear out my "real" shirts. I spend less on clothing per year than most children spend on candy.
The N.O. parish in town has a rummage sale every year. Toward the end, you can get a large brown bag stuffed with whatever clothing you want for $2. I can get about 15 T-shirts in that bag.
I would never wear something with an immodest or sinful slogan or picture, but I have quite a few shirts that say I'm a "volunteer" for this or that; I have one with Marvin the Martian looking quite scary, I have one that says "Nathan's Mom" and another that says "Richard's Mom". There's one that says I re-enlisted for the "Copperheads", some company in the Army. Many of these I won't even wear in public, not even to the small-town post office to drop off some packages.
Another nice thing about wearing crap T-shirts: I can cut a slit in the neck to give my neck more room. Apparently my neck is quite thick. So I'm the last one to wear any of these shirts. hahaha When I'm done with them, they're pretty far gone objectively speaking, so they go to the rag bucket for yet more use.
We use the "whole buffalo" around here! :)
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I have to suppress a lot of annoyance when my almost-AARP aged husband puts on a t-shirt with a slogan. It's embarassing but often these things are given to him so in his mind it's "practical" to wear them.
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Reply to Matthew who said "Nathan's Mom" and another that says "Richard's Mom"... but you're a guy, right!
Also about the remark about text leading your eye to the chest area, what about a necklace, or jewelry of sorts?
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Reply to Matthew who said "Nathan's Mom" and another that says "Richard's Mom"... but you're a guy, right!
Yes, I realize those shirts are ridiculous.
In fact, since I got them from a small town rummage sale, my wife knows who the original owner was!
Those are certainly in the category of, "I won't wear them outside the house".
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Also about the remark about text leading your eye to the chest area, what about a necklace, or jewelry of sorts?
Not quite the same, unless the jewelry is perfectly located on the bust area.
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This thread is a good example of the way in which people will go against traditional values (for example, the value that did not consider t-shirts to be acceptable dress for women for hundreds of years when society was more Christian) in order to go along with authority figures. We really shouldn't be surprised that the SSPX has gotten away with doing what's it's done to the resistance priests in the minds of its warped followers when we see this very dynamic on this very thread.
It's very easy for someone in a prominent position to rally people to the loose position and attack the stricter position, and usually by means of attack on the personality of the person with the stricter position.
t-shirts are bed clothes and underclothes. t-shirts are light fabric that do not fit and cover as traditional clothes because they are thin and loose, typically worn untucked, typically conveying an air of slovenness. t-shirts are unisex (just like pants). t-shirts are not traditional. There's nothing Mary-like in the wearing of the t-shirt. T-shirts wouldn't have been worn by Catholic women of the past.
A teenage girl cracking open a six-pack of beer with her friends in a t-shirt is A-OK for these people. Pants, on the other hand, "are an abomination for women".
I would feel self-conscious wearing a t-shirt in mixed company, (and not just because I'm currently fat!). If my natural modesty is more than these girls they have a big problem.
You want to throw out centuries of tradition to defend sloven dress. The "arguments" (rather invective) Matthew used to defend t-shirts could have been taken word for word from fisheaters posters to defend pants.
You people should really think about the viciousness of the attacks launched against me simply for believing in a higher standard of dress. What it shows you is how quickly "trads" can be made to move towards a more liberal position, scornful of traditional standards (as opposed to a moderate position, which would be more legitimate than the scorn displayed in this thread) when under the influence of authorities.
Um, I really don't think t shirts have been around for hundreds of years.
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Centuries of tradition? Wow. T shirts are undergarments? Amazing.
I better take mine off right away. I might scandalize my children.
Is this thread turning looney?
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Well, men should not wear t-shirt either. I do it sometimes under a sleepover or so and I feel that I should go to a booth and confess my sin. :cry:
But since I became a Tradcat I stopped wearing jeans! Jeans is the uniform of infantilized liberals! And let me not start on the horrible modern sloppy phenomena on wearing sneakers in public when you do not do sporting activities...yuck :really-mad2:
Mea Culpa for changing the topic by talking men wear when the thread was about women and t-shirt, but Oh Lord how the modern sloppy way of dressing in public irritates me. We do not need to dress up like Victorian aristocrats 24/7 ( I would love to though but my wallet do not allow it for the time being) but sometimes you see on the way people dress that there morality is on the same level as a chimpanzee or a Marxist. Which is the same in my book, but I think I respect the chimpanzee more. That might be a sin but the animal kingdom got sometimes more dignity and integrity than modern fallen man, in my book. Mea Culpa for the cynicism. But I traveled with public transport today. A demonic experience I must say. That's way Im a little bit cranky this evening.
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Um, I really don't think t shirts have been around for hundreds of years.
Neither have women's pants. T-shirts started as male undergarments.
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This article will provide a reality check for the ardent defenders of the T-shirt:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-shirt
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Our priest, who is quite strict about modesty, has spoken from the pulpit about modesty on quite a few occasions. He said he finds it edifying to see women wear a tee shirt underneath a dress or shirt that doesn't meet the modesty standards by itself. So in this case, it is more of an "underwear" type of garment.
In the book, "Dressing With Dignity", Colleen Hammond discourages tee shirts with wording on them. It may not be outright immodest, leading others to sin, but it goes against the feminine nature of not trying to advertise, draw attention to oneself. Also, with certain prints, one may ask where does the print on the shirt lead the eye? I don't have the book in front of me, but she gives several standards for determining if a shirt is properly modest in the way it fits.
T-shirts with wording on them is different, and especially if they're form fitting. The T-shirts I'm talking about and the pictures I linked do not fit that description.
Yes, that is different. The original poster had referred to a "team shirt" of sorts with writing on it. She said someone had told her that those shirts can make women into "walking billboards". This is what I was referring to. I also think there is a difference between a team shirt and a shirt with PINK or Areopastale written on the front. I don't think all tee shirts are immodest. The way they fit, the fabric they are made of makes all the difference.
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T-shirts are best to wear under one's clothes, or to bed, or on a hot day.
I personally would not prefer that women wear them in public.
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Lol gimli. I drive for public transit. I won't lie, it's hard sometimes. I'm convinced it's reducing my time in purgatory.
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Excuse me!
when I was asking the question I was meaning the kind of T-shirt that has logos on it, and when you bend forward you cant see down the neck. If I knew how to post a picture I would but unfortunatly.............I cant.
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Excuse me!
when I was asking the question I was meaning the kind of T-shirt that has logos on it, and when you bend forward you cant see down the neck. If I knew how to post a picture I would but unfortunatly.............I cant.
My mistake. I only have enough time to skim these threads and I mentally combined your posts about the logo and youth sporting events. I am usually busy doing this :baby:
Now back to my real life :)
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Starting a new trend for Trad Catholic Women.
Hop aboard girls!
(http://[URL=http://s270.photobucket.com/user/Myrnanne/media/modestEnough.jpg.html][IMG]http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj108/Myrnanne/modestEnough.jpg)[/URL][/img]
I bet if any of you young beauties walked into Church in this beautiful dress you would make heads turn. Be careful, Tele will be after you, no doubt about it.
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Is that burlap?
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I know you were joking but seriously women and men do not view attractiveness the same way. A man I dated used to say women get ready (tons of time spent on grooming, perfume, dress, hair) for other women. It went over my head at the time but I get it now.
Men will notice a young pretty woman no matter what she is wearing.
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Well, men should not wear t-shirt either. I do it sometimes under a sleepover or so and I feel that I should go to a booth and confess my sin. :cry:
But since I became a Tradcat I stopped wearing jeans! Jeans is the uniform of infantilized liberals! And let me not start on the horrible modern sloppy phenomena on wearing sneakers in public when you do not do sporting activities...yuck :really-mad2:
Mea Culpa for changing the topic by talking men wear when the thread was about women and t-shirt, but Oh Lord how the modern sloppy way of dressing in public irritates me. We do not need to dress up like Victorian aristocrats 24/7 ( I would love to though but my wallet do not allow it for the time being) but sometimes you see on the way people dress that there morality is on the same level as a chimpanzee or a Marxist. Which is the same in my book, but I think I respect the chimpanzee more. That might be a sin but the animal kingdom got sometimes more dignity and integrity than modern fallen man, in my book. Mea Culpa for the cynicism. But I traveled with public transport today. A demonic experience I must say. That's way Im a little bit cranky this evening.
Good for you!
I wear sneakers but I wish I could wear other shoes, they look tacky with my dress.
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I know you were joking but seriously women and men do not view attractiveness the same way. A man I dated used to say women get ready (tons of time spent on grooming, perfume, dress, hair) for other women. It went over my head at the time but I get it now.
Men will notice a young pretty woman no matter what she is wearing.
I heard that men will only notice what you are wearing if they like you.
(I guess all the time we take Sunday morning is wasted) :laugh1:
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In the most respectful way possible I have to say men always notice women who take the time to look feminine. The trick for us, is to not cross that line between crude and respectful. That's where we appreciate women doing there part.
Pax
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Well, men should not wear t-shirt either. I do it sometimes under a sleepover or so and I feel that I should go to a booth and confess my sin. :cry:
But since I became a Tradcat I stopped wearing jeans! Jeans is the uniform of infantilized liberals! And let me not start on the horrible modern sloppy phenomena on wearing sneakers in public when you do not do sporting activities...yuck :really-mad2:
Mea Culpa for changing the topic by talking men wear when the thread was about women and t-shirt, but Oh Lord how the modern sloppy way of dressing in public irritates me. We do not need to dress up like Victorian aristocrats 24/7 ( I would love to though but my wallet do not allow it for the time being) but sometimes you see on the way people dress that there morality is on the same level as a chimpanzee or a Marxist. Which is the same in my book, but I think I respect the chimpanzee more. That might be a sin but the animal kingdom got sometimes more dignity and integrity than modern fallen man, in my book. Mea Culpa for the cynicism. But I traveled with public transport today. A demonic experience I must say. That's way Im a little bit cranky this evening.
In my world, jeans are work pants for people who do actual, physical labor. There is nothing liberal about them. Or conservative, for that matter, Or ideological at all. The need of many on this forum to turn clothes that are both practical and modest into clubs to hit their fellow Catholics with is astonishing. There is nothing more significant to talk about?
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Is that burlap?
sure is!
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There's nothing wrong with men wearing denim out on the ranch or in the field, after all, denim cloths were invented and worn by such people for this very reason. :cowboy:
DISCLAIMER: I'm not a cowboy, but my uncle used to be; and I think the rancher life would be great.
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Well, men should not wear t-shirt either. I do it sometimes under a sleepover or so and I feel that I should go to a booth and confess my sin. :cry:
But since I became a Tradcat I stopped wearing jeans! Jeans is the uniform of infantilized liberals! And let me not start on the horrible modern sloppy phenomena on wearing sneakers in public when you do not do sporting activities...yuck :really-mad2:
Mea Culpa for changing the topic by talking men wear when the thread was about women and t-shirt, but Oh Lord how the modern sloppy way of dressing in public irritates me. We do not need to dress up like Victorian aristocrats 24/7 ( I would love to though but my wallet do not allow it for the time being) but sometimes you see on the way people dress that there morality is on the same level as a chimpanzee or a Marxist. Which is the same in my book, but I think I respect the chimpanzee more. That might be a sin but the animal kingdom got sometimes more dignity and integrity than modern fallen man, in my book. Mea Culpa for the cynicism. But I traveled with public transport today. A demonic experience I must say. That's way Im a little bit cranky this evening.
In my world, jeans are work pants for people who do actual, physical labor. There is nothing liberal about them. Or conservative, for that matter, Or ideological at all. The need of many on this forum to turn clothes that are both practical and modest into clubs to hit their fellow Catholics with is astonishing. There is nothing more significant to talk about?
Considering jeans. Please understand that I write out from a Scandinavian perspective. We don´t have cowboys and ranches here. When jeans came to Scandinavia it was an American modern fashion that stood for revolt against parents, authority and also an embracing of modern way of life. I still think to this day that jeans can be a sign of disrespect. It is to casual for my taste.
An considering political ideologies. I was a little bit ironic. I hope that is allowed amongst traditional Catholics. :sign-surrender:
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Jeans were a sign of rebellion here too and are very casual.
Unfortunately I grew up wearing pants but I the relatives who made sure I went to church never allowed me to wear jeans there for an evening service.
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I wonder who the uptight, judgmental, litigious Pharisees were who thumbed me down :laugh1: ? How can any level headed person oppose a rancher/cowboy wearing denim while he performs his work? :laugh2:
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I do it (wear a t-shirt) sometimes under a sleepover or so and I feel that I should go to a booth and confess my sin. :cry:
Perhaps you suffer from OCD/Scrupulosity.
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I wonder who the uptight, judgmental, litigious Pharisees were who thumbed me down :laugh1: ? How can any level headed person oppose a rancher/cowboy wearing denim while he performs his work? :laugh2:
I didn't thumb you down.
Many people wearing jeans today have never set foot in a mine and a good percent have never done done a day of hard labor. If they had remained as work clothes they would now only be identified with men working hard jobs.
They were introduced to popular culture to promote rebellion.
ETA: Not to be a hypocrite my son only wears jeans.
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I didn't thumb you down.
Many people wearing jeans today have never set foot in a mine and a good percent have never done done a day of hard labor. If they had remained as work clothes they would now only be identified with men working hard jobs.
They were introduced to popular culture to promote rebellion.
ETA: Not to be a hypocrite my son only wears jeans.
No worries, Tiffany, I didn't think it was you. I do agree with your comment. :)
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I do it (wear a t-shirt) sometimes under a sleepover or so and I feel that I should go to a booth and confess my sin. :cry:
Perhaps you suffer from OCD/Scrupulosity.
I fear many here do!
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I do it (wear a t-shirt) sometimes under a sleepover or so and I feel that I should go to a booth and confess my sin. :cry:
Perhaps you suffer from OCD/Scrupulosity.
Wow! That was a uptight, judgmental, litigious Pharisee comment for no reason. I tried to be a little bit funny and little bit serious but I guess that was to much for you. Is that a rule that tradcats must be utterly sensitive and rude to others on the internet? Well I never signed that petition. :ape:
I do whish we all dressed like Prussian and Victorian aristocrats everyday. I do not have that kind of income -yet.
Conservative and elegant dresscode is a catholic virtue! To bad tweeds cost a fortune. :dwarf: :dwarf:
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Is that burlap?
That was my first thought too! :laugh1:
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I wouldn't necessarily object to wearing t-shirts outside on a hot day, or maybe around the home sometimes.
Overall, though, I don't care much for t-shirts on women.
I remember what a religious Priest said in full thick robe to someone who said "Aren't you hot in that?"
His response:
"Hell's hotter".
I have always wonder why, when the temperature goes above a certain point, bare flesh solves all our problems? Seems to me keeping your skin in the shade, covered with clothing is not so bad. At least according to my experience, and that of my wife and daughters.
Oh dear it's above 80 and my arms are covered. How will I survive? Oh the agony. I don't thank I can make it through the day.
Also keeping covered is nice reparation for all the immodesty we are inundated with every day.
Some women just have to bare themselves even when it is freezing cold and windy. It is as if they are martyrs for the right to be the near occasion of sin.
Married too. What are they looking for?
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Thanks
Now I regret saying that :devil2:
Angel, you should have given the context of the question. Clothing worn for sport is of course going to be different than typical outer wear.
Is this going to be coed sport of girls playing against girls?
These games are going to be boys and girls ranging from 14 to 19.
POSITION STATEMENT:
T-Shirts may enhance the modesty of a young lady's swim suit. :furtive:
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQXDbntHxs7o7Ts8-kki74jjE5XAb6KTAp3RaWNv-WJvAaCUscM)
After seeing Tele get mauled over this topic, I feel nervous now.
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I want to Thank all the ladies who did my poll about what you thought of T-shirts.
And I think it is time to see what the gentleman think, I will start working on it.