I believe the one thing that makes people judge our church is US. How do they see us treat the least of our brothers.

St Francis and Blessed Mother Teresa both said Preach the Gospel and if necessary, use words.  

I work on the line at an abortion clinic. We have saved over 300 babies this year with loving treatment to the women vs screeching murderer.

I run a soup kitchen with my family on Wednesdays because the sisters need a break.

I teach special needs children catechism, and teach confirmation classes.

I support people who choose life over the culture of death.

I know when I face judgement, a plus on my side will be that some have converted to the ways of Christ because of my actions,  that I did love as Jesus commanded.

Quote from: Belloc

Tele is not really a happy fellow......

He does seem to have suffered through some difficult experiences.  On the other hand, he is intelligent and insightful.  I often see people direct comments to him that seem purposefully hurtful rather than discuss his ideas.

While I do think he is being overly harsh with poche, I have enough respect for Tele that I do not automatically dismiss his concerns.

Nor I and yes, he is intelligent, would agree there too, but when it comes to dsicussions of romance, marriage, etc and SSPX, his hurt comes through and usually,  

Quote from: Loriann

I believe the one thing that makes people judge our church is US. How do they see us treat the least of our brothers.

St Francis and Blessed Mother Teresa both said Preach the Gospel and if necessary, use words.  

I work on the line at an abortion clinic. We have saved over 300 babies this year with loving treatment to the women vs screeching murderer.

I run a soup kitchen with my family on Wednesdays because the sisters need a break.

I teach special needs children catechism, and teach confirmation classes.

I support people who choose life over the culture of death.

I know when I face judgement, a plus on my side will be that some have converted to the ways of Christ because of my actions,  that I did love as Jesus commanded.

True, liberal Catholics are great welcoming, but no sound theology and they turn off people that would normally be open to the Church over this.......Trads tend to be consistently  :really-mad2: and  :shocked:, in turn, their actions and words are a turn off....

I am not sure I would agree liberal Catholics are welcoming--cliquishness and territorialism exists in most churches.  But I disagree about the sound theology--many NO are true to the teachings of the church. Not all are properly catechised, as a whole generation was lost (mine, but for the seminarian turned Dad and several priests and sisters in our family).

  A lot is dependent upon the priests.  Our parish has been swamped with Trad catholics lately as our priest and our adoration chapels have somehow attracted one who told another and so on. That inspired me to learn more. But I will tell you that the TRAD men  treat the other parishoners like dirt. They sneer, make comments and are very mean. They make cruel comments to the female altar servers--young girls--tell me--how does that make the girls  feel?  The altar servers (whether you agree or not)  are operating under the proper assumption that  their local Bishop--a Cardinal in fact--is the authority and therefore  allowed to make such decisions.  And that is the teaching.  Every time I see these things I think--you have lost your hope of promoting the TRAD cause because you don't know how to communicate with charity, and you act as though you know more than the local bishop. There is a difference between instructing the ignorant and bulldozing them...also then, I just wonder, why come to this church if you hate so much of it??

I think all schisms of Catholic and Orthodox had better start looking at what we have in common, BODY BLOOD SOUL AND DIVINITY and start  being more functional and less fractured--we are soon to be fighting for the freedom of ALL religion, and instead we are arguing over dress lengths and Friday fasts.

 I truly believe we are fighting for the religious lives of our children and their children.

I am not sure I would agree liberal Catholics are welcoming--cliquishness and territorialism exists in most churches.  But I disagree about the sound theology--many are true to the eucharist and theology, and many were poorly catechised (like my generation, but for a seminarian turned dad-- and several relatives who were Religious I would have been there too, maybe.  A lot is dependent upon the priests.  Our parish has been swamped with Trad catholics lately as our priest and our adoration chapels have somehow attracted one who told another and so on. That inspired me to learn more. But I will tell you that the TRAD men  treat the other parishoners like dirt. They sneer, make comments and are very mean. They make cruel comments to the femal altar servers--young girls--tell me--how does that make them feel?  They are operating under the assumption that their local Bishop--a Cardinal in fact--is the authority allowed to make such decisions.  And that is the teaching.  Every time I see these things I think--you have lost your cause because you don't know how to communicate with charity, and you act as though you know more than the local bishop.

I think all schisms of Catholic and Orthodox had better start looking at what we have in common, BODY BLOOD SOUL AND DIVINITY and start  being more functional and less fractured--we are soon to be fighting for the freedom of our religion, and instead we are arguing over dress lengths and Friday fasts.

In the end we must all unite. The ten commandments and what are sins against them are still the same. I truly believe we are fighting for the religious lives of our children and their children, and this constant divisiveness and superiority hang up are going to be the end of us.

We can't have unity without sound doctrine.  If we give up doctrine it is not real unity.

Quote from: Jaynek

We can't have unity without sound doctrine.  If we give up doctrine it is not real unity.

ABsolutely...sound doctrine--what is the key doctrine of our church? We relive the sacrifice of the lamb and share in the Body blood soul and divinity.  There is no compromise.  That was the act that started the church...the big battles are mostly about nondoctrinal things as far as I see...

A shocking proportion of people who attend the Novus Ordo do not believe in the Real Presence, even though technically it is still taught. These things you are identifying as non-doctrinal are often the supports of doctrine.  Removing the support weakens or destroys the doctrine.

My mother volunteers with a dicoese wide food bank, it is shocking how much the NO folks there are not only in opposition, ignorance of doctrine, but often do not care. They are less Catholic in views and practice then some Protestants...we "trads' would have more in common with a Fundy on many moral, ethical things..

That has been a major issue for me since converting. It still is a real shock to me, an I don't know what the solution is.

Quote from: Loriann

Quote from: Jaynek

We can't have unity without sound doctrine.  If we give up doctrine it is not real unity.

ABsolutely...sound doctrine--what is the key doctrine of our church? We relive the sacrifice of the lamb and share in the Body blood soul and divinity.  There is no compromise.  That was the act that started the church...the big battles are mostly about nondoctrinal things as far as I see...

A shocking proportion of people who attend the Novus Ordo do not believe in the Real Presence, even though technically it is still taught. These things you are identifying as non-doctrinal are often the supports of doctrine.  Removing the support weakens or destroys the doctrine.

That may be one of the reasons our NO church is so popular--we will not allow any compromise about the real presence and our kids are taught that always....

But yes, who teaches what makes the difference.

But as we fight over hemlines and other such things we lose sight of the important key.