Author Topic: A New Saint (Read 2839 times)

s2srea · « **Reply #15 on:** June 04, 2013, 05:01:46 PM »

Quote from: Stephen Francis

s2rea, no, I have not. If you'd bothered to read anything else I've ever posted here you'd see that I have addressed the Dimond Brothers' website and do not recognize them as in any way representing the Faith.

Great.

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The Eastern liturgies have been changed just like the Roman one was replaced.

Some have, but not all.

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It is not possible to accept the heresies of Newchurch and be a faithful Catholic.

Bishop Williamson, a man I look up to and respect, and many other faithful Catholics would disagree with you on some levels, at least. You may disagree with him, but I place my trust in his opinion. I also see a problem with the generalization you present in what exactly the laity attached to New Rome are exactly accepting of. I don't think we can say that all members in the Novus Ordo have lost the Faith, or non-Catholics.

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To agree with their false theology or to tolerate same while attending their idolatrous services is mortally sinful.

I'm not a theologian, so I have little to respond there. I agree that attending the Novus Ordo is a mortal sin, because it is illicitly promoted Mass.

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That's not the opinion of some armchair sede website. That's the first chapter of the Epistle of St. Paul to the Romans. When you participate in or even tolerate the filth of Christ's enemies, you participate in their recompense as well, which shall be Hell.

Again, to disagree with you is not to disagree with the Epistle of St. Paul, but your use of scripture in defending your position begs the question in each one of these specific cases.

Mithrandylan · « **Reply #16 on:** June 04, 2013, 05:02:27 PM »

There is a difference between an error of fact and an error of faith.

Someone attending a NO service where there is no transubstantiation, but adores the bread as if there was, commits an error of fact. Attending a TLM where there is a valid sacrament and the person behaves as if the Sacred Host is just a wafer is an error of faith.

Matthew · « **Reply #17 on:** June 04, 2013, 05:32:49 PM »

Quote from: Stephen Francis

s2rea, no, I have not. If you'd bothered to read anything else I've ever posted here you'd see that I have addressed the Dimond Brothers' website and do not recognize them as in any way representing the Faith.

The Eastern liturgies have been changed just like the Roman one was replaced. It is not possible to accept the heresies of Newchurch and be a faithful Catholic. To agree with their false theology or to tolerate same while attending their idolatrous services is mortally sinful.

That's not the opinion of some armchair sede website. That's the first chapter of the Epistle of St. Paul to the Romans. When you participate in or even tolerate the filth of Christ's enemies, you participate in their recompense as well, which shall be Hell.

You are simplifying things too much, Stephen.

It is not true that everyone with the faculty of reason sees the Crisis in the Church and understands it perfectly, as well as what the correct course of action is.

That is ridiculous.

If that were true, we wouldn't have a multitude of different "paths" in the Traditional Catholic world.

SSPX "Resistance", SSPX, SSPV, Fraternity of St. Peter, Institute of Christ the King, Indult, independent, conclavist Sedevacantist, etc.

You can't say that just one of them is correct, and the rest are all going to Hell.

You underestimate the magnitude and power of this current Crisis to befuddle and confuse the good-willed Faithful.

Sigismund · « **Reply #18 on:** June 04, 2013, 06:50:01 PM »

Quote from: Matto

Quote from: Stephen Francis
Was this man a Roman Catholic? Or was he a member of Prot-Newchurch? . . . . It would truly be a shame if his soul was lost when he died in such a terrible way.

I have also wondered also if members of the conciliar church who are martyred go to heaven. How many of the members of the conciliar church have the true faith? I hope he had the faith and is in heaven.

Perhaps you and Stephen Francis should worry more about your won soul than about parsing the faith of martyrs.

poche · « **Reply #19 on:** June 04, 2013, 11:09:42 PM »

This man chose Christ over the pagan Hindu gods and he was murdered. He may never be canonized but in the eyes of God he is a saint. Would to God that we could all be so faithful to our profession of faith.

Ethelred · « **Reply #20 on:** June 05, 2013, 05:46:53 AM »

Quote from: poche

In India, a Christian man has been beheaded after he refused to become a Hindu.

Tapas Bin, 35-year-old resident of a remote tribal region of West Tripura, had been under heavy pressure from his father-in-law to abandon Christianity.
[..]
http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=18042

Another Newchurch post because of its inaccuracy where it matters.

Poche, do tell us what "Christian" means here in your Newchurch article. Was this man you're reporting about a Catholic, or a Protestant, or from another sect ?

Usually protestants call themselves "Christians", whilst Catholics call themselves Catholics, to distinguish the two. (Funnily most protestants I know don't think that we Catholics are Christians at all.)

Anyway, a protestant who dies for his wrong protestant projection of the true Christ, may be a good man but for sure he'll never be a Saint. This also applies to most of the Newsaints and Newblessed of the "heretical and schismatic conciliar Church".

In short: Poche, please stop your Newchurch propaganda.

poche · « **Reply #21 on:** June 05, 2013, 05:50:14 AM »

Quote from: Ethelred

Quote from: poche
In India, a Christian man has been beheaded after he refused to become a Hindu.

Tapas Bin, 35-year-old resident of a remote tribal region of West Tripura, had been under heavy pressure from his father-in-law to abandon Christianity.
[..]
http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=18042

Another Newchurch post because of its inaccuracy where it matters.

Poche, do tell us what "Christian" means here in your Newchurch article. Was this man you're reporting about a Catholic, or a Protestant, or from another sect ?

Usually protestants call themselves "Christians", whilst Catholics call themselves Catholics, to distinguish the two. (Funnily most protestants I know don't think that we Catholics are Christians at all.)

Anyway, a protestant who dies for his wrong protestant projection of the true Christ, may be a good man but for sure he'll never be a Saint. This also applies to most of the Newsaints and Newblessed of the "heretical and schismatic conciliar Church".

In short: Poche, please stop your Newchurch propaganda.

My response to a Protestant calling himself a Christain is to say that I am one also. When a Protestant says that I am not a Christian as if being Catholic was not Christian then I consider it a slur.

poche · « **Reply #22 on:** June 05, 2013, 05:58:37 AM »

Here is more information on this situation.
A 35-year-old Christian man was beheaded for refusing to convert to Hinduism. Indian media that covered the affair revealed that the man, Tapas Bin, was killed by his own father-in-law in the village of Teliamura (West Tripura District), in the north-eastern part of the country, where the victim's body was found a few days ago in a stream.

According to police, three years ago Bin married Jentuly, the daughter of 55-year-old Gobinda Jamatiya, the member of a local tribal religion. The Christian man had been a private tutor of Gobinda's daughter, and the couple had a one-year-old son.

Since the marriage, Gobinda had been pressuring Bin to abandon Christianity and join his tribal religion. When Bin persistently refused, Gobinda decided to kill his son-in-law with the help of an ojha (shaman), Krishnapada Jamatiya (no relation), and dispose of the body.

Police arrested the 42-year-old shaman but were unable to find Gobinda, who works at the West Tripura Science and Technology Department, and is thought to be on the run.

Khrishnapada confessed to the crime, providing detailed information about the killing. For example, he said that before the assassination, Gobinda and he had performed a puja, a ritual prayer.

Bin's wife Jentuly told police that her father did not recognise their marriage and had pressured Bin to convert. What is more, "My father might kill me and my son too," she said.

http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Tripura:-Christian-man-beheaded-for-not-converting-to-Hinduism-28097.html

poche · « **Reply #23 on:** June 05, 2013, 06:05:34 AM »

This is about the original source of this information. It is from Asia News. It does not say whether the man was Catholic, Protestant, or Orthodox. He could have been Traditionalist. But he was killed because he believed in Christ, he identified himself as a Christian, and would not renounce his Christianity in favor of worshiping pagan idols.
Here is more about Asia News;

As of today, Dec. 3 2003, www.asianews.it can be read in English and Chinese. We are very encouraged by the success of the AsiaNews on-line edition in Italian. In the previous month of November alone, there were 150,000 visitors to our site, whose articles were diffused among major Italian press agencies. Thanks to the re-launching of our news by Catholic press agencies such as MISNA and Zenit, AsiaNews articles have also reached other parts of the globe.

http://www.asianews.it/news-en/About-us-127.html

Stephen Francis · « **Reply #24 on:** June 05, 2013, 07:13:43 AM »

Oh, good. Now we know that Hus, Wycliffe, the Albigensians and the Mormon missionaries who have died for their 'j-sus' were 'saints', too.

A few months ago, this Indian man was praying in union with Ratzinger, a manifest heretic. A few days ago, he was praying in union with Bergoglio, a man who has publicly participated in blasphemous, idolatrous and heretical 'prayer' with infidel Jєωs.

Were any of the heretical blasphemies of those men clear enough to demonstrate that this Indian man should have left fellowship with Newchurch and its criminal leaders?

How many more days, weeks, months, years or DECADES of past and present corruption, deceit, blasphemy and perversion of the teachings and dogmas of Holy Church would have been enough evidence for this man?

His death was tragic, and I have said so much already. He was, however, not a saint or a martyr. His false worship of a non-existent Protestant 'j-sus' is even more of a tragedy.

Matthew, I admit my opinion here might be harsh and I would even accept that I have possibly been uncharitable, but "ridiculous" is too harsh.

"The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jєωs and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church."

Source: Papal Bull Cantate Domino, by Pope Eugene IV, 1441.

Immaculate Heart of Mary, triumph soon!

Most Sacred Heart of Jesus, have mercy on us.

Ethelred · « **Reply #25 on:** June 05, 2013, 07:27:51 AM »

Quote from: poche

This is about the original source of this information. It is from Asia News. It does not say whether the man was Catholic, Protestant, or Orthodox. He could have been Traditionalist.

Then your "information" is not an information, but shallow and useless, as is 99% of your Newchurch propaganda.

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But he was killed because he believed in Christ, he identified himself as a Christian, and would not renounce his Christianity in favor of worshiping pagan idols.

Newchurch nonsense again based on the non-information you provided. And very close to the so called Reformation, which actually is a Deformation.

Say I know X protestants, amongst them good men and not-so-good men. However all of them call themselves "Christian", and every single one of them identifies himself as a Christian, and would not renounce his Christianity. It just doesn't mean anything, because their "Christ" is not the true Jesus Christ which we Catholics believe in, but a wrong protestant projection.
The ironic part is: These X protestants usually uphold X different and opposing "Christianities". Their single uniting element is that they all are anti-Catholic (and of course heretic and schismatic and all believe to go straight to heaven in their hour of death).

As said, there are good men amongst these X protestants, but there's nothing truthfully or saintly about them when they uphold -- or even die for -- their objective deformation of Jesus Christ and His Church.

We're not talking about the question if these X protestants are saved when they die. God decides. But they're not Saints. So don't say so. And during their entire live they objectively fought against the true Jesus Christ and His One, Holy, Apostolic, Catholic Church.

MyrnaM · « **Reply #26 on:** June 05, 2013, 08:12:25 AM »

The person did not die rejecting God, did he? At least it doesn't sound as if he did according to the facts presented here.

You people who insist on judging the soul of everyone are the ones who should be shaking in your boots right now. Who do you think you are anyway?

True, we have all the dogmas and doctrines of the Church to believe, and the helps to restore us to His saving grace once lost, which returns us to His friendship. Yet, you people insist on skipping over one truth, and that is... the Church teaches us in the end it is not your place to say, who is a friend of God and who rejected Him. To ignore this teaching is to ignore God, His Church and His reward. In other-words the Church teaches us to hope for salvation not despair, and certainly NOT to judge the soul of another.

God gives everyone of us, enough grace to save our souls, it is up to us in the end to cooperate with that grace.

By withholding our personal judgement of what the final judgement of a particular soul does not mean rejecting NO SALVATION OUTSIDE THE CHURCH. It just means, it is not your/our place to say if a person died an enemy or friend of God.

Do you really think that God is going to send me to Hell, because I have hope that this particular person saved their soul?

BTW Feeneyism is also a NEWCHURCH.

JohnGrey · « **Reply #27 on:** June 05, 2013, 10:03:41 AM »

Quote from: Matthew

You are simplifying things too much, Stephen.

It is not true that everyone with the faculty of reason sees the Crisis in the Church and understands it perfectly, as well as what the correct course of action is.

That is ridiculous.

If that were true, we wouldn't have a multitude of different "paths" in the Traditional Catholic world.

SSPX "Resistance", SSPX, SSPV, Fraternity of St. Peter, Institute of Christ the King, Indult, independent, conclavist Sedevacantist, etc.

You can't say that just one of them is correct, and the rest are all going to Hell.

You underestimate the magnitude and power of this current Crisis to befuddle and confuse the good-willed Faithful.

The confusion caused by the current Apostasy does not in any way exempt a putative Catholic from knowing their faith intimately, both in terms of what it has been immemorially, and in contrast to what the conciliar antichurch contends that it is now. Protestant heretics have the same Apostles, the same morality, the same belief in the necessity of Christ for man's redemption, in many points the same morality, but however well-meaning they may be they practice a perversion of the Catholic faith, in theology and praxis, which is alien to Apostolicity and at best is utterly devoid of means of sanctification. How is this any different from the Montinian religion? Would you argue then that Baptist missionaries killed by Moslems are martyrs as well? The Christ in whose name they pour out their blood, to paraphrase Eugene IV, is as alien and repugnant to the Second Person of the Most Blessed Trinity as the Isa of the Qu'ran. Likewise, the Jesus in whom conciliarists put their faith, a Jesus that permits many ways to the Father, that consigns Jєωs to their blasphemous perfidy, that recognizes sanctification in religions of false Gods, whom the Apostle called devils, is not of the Father. Either a conciliarist believes in this Jesus, or he does not and, like Aaron, offers incense to the golden calf.

JohnGrey · « **Reply #28 on:** June 05, 2013, 10:09:41 AM »

Quote from: MyrnaM

The person did not die rejecting God, did he? At least it doesn't sound as if he did according to the facts presented here.

You people who insist on judging the soul of everyone are the ones who should be shaking in your boots right now. Who do you think you are anyway?

True, we have all the dogmas and doctrines of the Church to believe, and the helps to restore us to His saving grace once lost, which returns us to His friendship. Yet, you people insist on skipping over one truth, and that is... the Church teaches us in the end it is not your place to say, who is a friend of God and who rejected Him. To ignore this teaching is to ignore God, His Church and His reward. In other-words the Church teaches us to hope for salvation not despair, and certainly NOT to judge the soul of another.

God gives everyone of us, enough grace to save our souls, it is up to us in the end to cooperate with that grace.

By withholding our personal judgement of what the final judgement of a particular soul does not mean rejecting NO SALVATION OUTSIDE THE CHURCH. It just means, it is not your/our place to say if a person died an enemy or friend of God.

Do you really think that God is going to send me to Hell, because I have hope that this particular person saved their soul?

BTW Feeneyism is also a NEWCHURCH.

Yes it was condemned by Pius IX to entertain good hope that people not in the true Church will attain salvation, and how could someone practicing the Montinian religion claim in the current age claim membership in the Church through invincible ignorance. Was this a sin against charity and prudence by His Holiness?

Stephen Francis · « **Reply #29 on:** June 05, 2013, 12:37:36 PM »

In the name of charity and in order to guard against my pride being a stumbling block, this is the last post I will make on this topic.

Notice, MyrnaM and others, that I never referenced Fr. Feeney, nor was it necessary.

The solemn declarations of one of Peter's successors were sufficient.

Immaculate Heart of Mary, triumph soon!

Most Sacred Heart of Jesus, have mercy on us.