Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Catholic Living in the Modern World => Topic started by: AnthonyPadua on February 16, 2024, 08:06:41 AM
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I couldn't find the other thread with the same title so I am making a new one.
This is bothering me a bit (scruples). I know that counting calories would be the most 'accurate' to know if you are eating past the large meal, but at the same time there are foods that make you 'feel' more full, perfect example would be apples vs cookies, the apple is less calories but fills you up more. And one could even eat a 'full' meal at a restaurant/take out which are usually high in calories due to the oils and sauces and still have a decent 2 'small' meals...
I think I am bothered as last year I didn't work so I could have 1 meal per day without worrying about work ethic/performance/safety etc, so it feels like I am doing less or 'cheating' so to speak by eating 2 small meals (say 500 calorie each) and 1 main meal (~1500 calorie), and this is still 'under eating'. And of course a person could always drink something between meals for calories like juice or milk, but I think not drinking between meals would be a good mortification and less of a 'cheat' (unless you really need it if you do I high intense labour job, my job isn't that intense or laborious, perhaps medium?)
Since this is only my 2nd 'proper' lent I don't have past experience to rely on.
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Church doesn't require counting calories, or even weighing things on a gram scale.
Just envision your two small meals together and think whether they'd constitute a big meal ... and use common sense, and relax.
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Church doesn't require counting calories, or even weighing things on a gram scale.
Just envision your two small meals together and think whether they'd constitute a big meal ... and use common sense, and relax.
But if you have a super large main meal then the 2 small meals can still be large as they are still less than the main meal.
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This is bothering me a bit (scruples). I know that counting calories would be the most 'accurate' to know if you are eating past the large meal, but at the same time there are foods that make you 'feel' more full, perfect example would be apples vs cookies, the apple is less calories but fills you up more.
The point is not to lose weight, but to mortify yourself. Since the lenten rules technically don't apply, you can do this however you like.
And one could even eat a 'full' meal at a restaurant/take out which are usually high in calories due to the oils and sauces and still have a decent 2 'small' meals...
The old, old strict Lenten rules (Middle Ages) didn't allow milk, eggs, cheese, meat, etc for a full 40 days. Basically, this would cut out meat and animal fats. So you were left with fruits, veggies, nuts. Current rules allow meat once a day, due to the modern diet deficiencies and hectic lifestyle.
But...One can still cut back on the above things, and eat a more "paleo" diet (as an example). The spirit of the law would suggest one limit foods favorable to one's tastes, whatever that is. As long as you eat enough to fulfill your duties of life. Don't go overboard.
I think I am bothered as last year I didn't work so I could have 1 meal per day without worrying about work ethic/performance/safety etc, so it feels like I am doing less or 'cheating' so to speak by eating 2 small meals (say 500 calorie each) and 1 main meal (~1500 calorie), and this is still 'under eating'.
You could eat enough calories to have sufficient energy, but still 'fast' by eating things you hate -- i.e. tuna salad sandwiches, or eggs with no salt/pepper/hot sauce, or dry chicken with no seasonings. Or salad with dressings you don't like.
And of course a person could always drink something between meals for calories like juice or milk, but I think not drinking between meals would be a good mortification and less of a 'cheat' (unless you really need it if you do I high intense labour job, my job isn't that intense or laborious, perhaps medium?)
There's lots of leeway.
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Thanks for this thread OP. I struggle with this a bit too because my morning and afternoon meals aren't big normally. In other words, I don't think my normal breakfast and lunch together would constitute a large meal either.
What I do is cut back somewhat on what I regularly eat along with cutting out the snack between lunch and dinner. I don't feel as satisfied after lunch, and I really feel the fast before the main meal by skipping the snack.
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But if you have a super large main meal then the 2 small meals can still be large as they are still less than the main meal.
I just use common sense. I know some people who apply the letter of the law and expand their main meal to twice what they would normally eat. I go by the yardstick of a main meal I would "normally" eat, though some people have a lot of small meals and rarely eat one super large meal, so perhaps it's more like something that would constitute a decent and satisfying main meal for an average person.
It's not an exact science using gram scales, calories counters, etc. To me that borders on a scrupulosity that's reminiscent of the Pharisaical attitude. I try to keep the main meal within the limits of what I consider a normal main meal that a normal person might eat, and then just visualize the two small meals to make sure that together they don't rise to that level of a completely satisfying main meal.
Point is to perform mortification not to be all scrupulous about it.
If you double the size of your main meal so that your two small meals could be normal meals, that fails the test of mortification.
Nor would it be mortal sin of any kind if on one or another day you miscalculated.
Also, the main meal isn't a relative thing. I've occasionally done something where, because I was in a hurry, where I ate a pretty small main meal on any given day. That does not require adjusting "down" the other two meals on that particular day. Main Meal should be based on a hypothetical main meal that a normal person might find satisfying and not leave them hungry, not the actual main meal you ate on that day.
Mortal sin would be, "Forget this. I'm not fasting." If you trip up a little by an unintentional miscalculation, it's maybe a venial sin at best ... if you were negligent in keeping track. I'm sure I've had days where I had a third small meal where I had forgotten that I had already had 2.
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Last year Fr. said "2 smaller meals one regular meal, that's breakfast lunch and dinner, no snacking in between."
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(Save meat, eggs etc for Sundays.)
For today, I ate a bowl of oatmeal for breakfast and big salad with bean chili on top for lunch.
For dinner, Tuna sandwiches with a side of plantain chips.
Ash Wednesday, we went out to dinner one main meal for the day was vegetarian fajitas and veggie enchiladas.
Yesterday, was salad for breakfast and apple. popcorn for lunch and huge salad for dinner with bean chili and plantain chips.
Drinking water, coffee and tea.
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On days where meat is eaten once at the principal meal, eat more meat than usual and you won’t be hungry later, it’s the veggies and rice, etc other carbs that’ll make you hungry later; cut the carb serving in half (or eliminate it entirely) and use extra meat to substitute for the deleted carbs and you’ll be quite surprised how hungry you’re not, I speak from experience on that.
As others have said, don’t fret too much over it…honest effort and God is happy!
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On days where meat is eaten once at the principal meal, eat more meat than usual and you won’t be hungry later, it’s the veggies and rice, etc other carbs that’ll make you hungry later; cut the carb serving in half (or eliminate it entirely) and use extra meat to substitute for the deleted carbs and you’ll be quite surprised how hungry you’re not, I speak from experience on that.
As others have said, don’t fret too much over it…honest effort and God is happy!
Proteins are more filling which is why high protein meals are 'heavier'.
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I resolve this personally by just skipping a meal. Then I don't have to worry about the size.
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On days where meat is eaten once at the principal meal, eat more meat than usual
That’s contrary to the purpose of Lent. You’re supposed to feel some hunger. It’s a penance.
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That’s contrary to the purpose of Lent. You’re supposed to feel some hunger. It’s a penance.
My assumption is that the principal meal is your only meal, nothing I said is contrary, eat one main meal per day and hunger will be felt
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That’s contrary to the purpose of Lent. You’re supposed to feel some hunger. It’s a penance.
The Lenten discipline is both penitential and ascetical. Sometimes we trads focus too much on the penitential end since the Conciliar Church de-emphasises penance and confession has become a rare sacrament amongst the Conciliarists.
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I had a couple pieces of pizza. I struggle.
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I have read that 8 ounces (225 grams) of solid food is an upper limit for a collation.
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I had a couple pieces of pizza. I struggle.
I also had pizza yesterday, and I don’t feel guilty about it, nothing but cheese, and bread with some tomato sauce; and being that I really only eat meat for the two meals I eat every day (outside of Lent, that is), it was a struggle yesterday, but needed a break from fish
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Strictly a curious question, and nothing more, how many here are over the age of 60 but still adhere to the Lenten fast?
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I have read that 8 ounces (225 grams) of solid food is an upper limit for a collation.
Probably something someone through out there as a rule of thumb, since people were unsure, yet IMO it could lead to neurotic scrupulosity with people taking gram scales with them everywhere they go.
Way it's written in most pre-Vatican II missals is one full meal and two smaller meals that do not together rise to the level of a full meal.
It's generally expressed that you can take one full meal (no definition of what that means). One person's full meal (someone working a desk job) may not be another's (someone doing manual labor). Then you just apply common sense about the two small meals. Visualize them and then determine whether the two meals would constitute a satisfying full meal or would leave you hungry and wanting for more.
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My assumption is that the principal meal is your only meal,
:laugh1: The title of this thread is “2 small meals”.
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Strictly a curious question, and nothing more, how many here are over the age of 60 but still adhere to the Lenten fast?
Well, it's actually until you turn 59. I'm about 3.5 years away from that, but I intend to continue keeping the fast ... unless I develop some health condition that would suggest otherwise. I don't see that it does any harm.
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Strictly a curious question, and nothing more, how many here are over the age of 60 but still adhere to the Lenten fast?
I'm 64 and will adhere to it till I die, my dad held to it till he died at 86 years old. No reason not to - if there ever is a reason then of course that would be different, but so far I'm thankful for having no reason to not adhere to it.
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:laugh1: The title of this thread is “2 small meals”.
:facepalm:
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I also had pizza yesterday, and I don’t feel guilty about it, nothing but cheese, and bread with some tomato sauce; and being that I really only eat meat for the two meals I eat every day (outside of Lent, that is), it was a struggle yesterday, but needed a break from fish
I just want to drop this image here, while not a strict rule, it is a pius thing.
(https://i.imgur.com/Gn74mhH.jpg)
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I just want to drop this image here, while not a strict rule, it is a pius thing.
(https://i.imgur.com/Gn74mhH.jpg)
Good advice, glad I don’t do banquets of anything
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Strictly a curious question, and nothing more, how many here are over the age of 60 but still adhere to the Lenten fast?
I always thought I would continue indefinitely, but this past year, a health issue has arisen. If I don’t eat at least a small every few hours during the day when I’m active, I become faint and have actually passed out briefly on three occasions. Once, was on the side of the road between my pickup and my mailbox. I’d gone at least six hours without taking anything, and upon standing up and taking a few steps, felt myself going down. I was out for maybe a second and able to sit before falling backwards in the dirt. I knew at once what had happened, but had to stay there a few minutes sitting on the ground. I was not at all injured. It was a bad day for my arthritis so I couldn’t get up unaided. So I rolled to the mailbox and used the post to slowly right myself. I got the mail and rather cautiously drive the five miles down to my place. I ate some saltines and a mug of tea with honey. I was fine after that although my dogs were annoyed that I didn’t feed them first as usual!
What I’m doing is eating the equivalent of two meals instead of one and a half. One is my main meal as normal, but the other is nibbles throughout the day. I’ve also given up two particular favorite foods that aren’t all that healthful. As for abstaining from meat, I do that fully, on Wednesday or Saturday, and of course on Fridays.
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We see Novus Ordo churches all have Fish Fries (where they make some nice profits) on Fridays ... because abstaining from meat for 5-6 Fridays is a "big deal" for them, so they have to offset the little penitential spirit they have left by throwing these big fish fries.
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We see Novus Ordo churches all have Fish Fries (where they make some nice profits) on Fridays ... because abstaining from meat for 5-6 Fridays is a "big deal" for them, so they have to offset the little penitential spirit they have left by throwing these big fish fries.
For the sake of truthful information, Friday night Fish Fries predate VII and the Novus Ordo. They go back to at least the 1950’s (that’s far back as I’ve been around) but probable much further, especially on the two coasts with seafood industries, and they weren’t necessarily just during Lent.
I am assuming that the poster of Reply #26 avoids any connection with Novus Ordo parishes, so one wonders how he is familiar with the financials of these dinners. They obviously can’t lose money, and hopefully there are some net proceeds for good causes, but in my observation the prices are typically family friendly. Often there is a “family price”, or the cost of the meal is by donation. Net proceeds may go to support the parish or parochial school, but in my experience they often go to special causes such as pro-life support for expecting mothers, food banks, seminarians, Special Olympics (founded by a Catholic), and so forth. These and other works of mercy (both corporal and spiritual) need to receive funding from somewhere.
One Lenten practice that in my experience is post VII (though it may have happened in traditional times) is that parishes have a Soup Night. In a former parish a volunteer would collect donated vegetables from area grocery stores (those “about” ready for compost) and make a hearty and tasty vegetable soup. If there were enough cabbages and carrots a coleslaw might be made, but usually it was just soup and bread (again, donated from a store’s “pull date” stock). Coffee, water, and a punch were provided. There was a Lenten program afterwards. Leftover soup and bread was taken to a local homeless shelter. People brought their own bowl, spoon, and cups and were asked to donate what they otherwise would have spent for dinner that evening, but this was all anonymous. Proceeds went to our St. Vincent DePaul Conference and the community food bank. In my current parish we have soup night on Monday’s in Lent. Different parish organizations host each week, their members bring soups, there are always some vegetarian options for those observing a stricter abstinence during Lent. Bread, crackers, coffee, and juice are provided. People bring their own table ware (it is provided for those who forget or are new). There is an anonymous donation box and proceeds go to our St. Vincent DePaul Conference, which operates a large food bank (typically serving 1,100 or more every Wednesday).
MY POINT is NOT promoting the diocesan parish programs, but that these activities, especially the soup nights, would seem to work well also in traditional chapels. In addition to offering a simple meal at an affordable cost (and giving mom’s a break) they could provide opportunity for chapel members to become acquainted, to learn about the different apostolates at the chapel, to raise funds for chapel needs or other works of mercy. They could be in conjunction with a Lenten talk or a devotion such as the Stations (which don’t only have to be on Friday, or if on Friday’s it would be easy enough to have soups without meat).
I pray that everyone's Lent is going well so far.