Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Catholic Living in the Modern World => Topic started by: Traditional Guy 20 on December 16, 2013, 06:56:14 PM
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Ah yes this is the kind of Catholic Church young people want; a church that is tolerant towards everyone and dares not assert that her religion is superior to all others, a church that is "inclusive" and recognizes Jesus supports ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity and ordaning women, a church that must listen to the laypeoples' "experience," a church that is "relevant to the world," etc.
Well I know that the majority of young people these days are leftist so maybe what this article is saying is true on that young people want "this," however this religion this author wants the Catholic Church to become is very boring, bland and weak, a reason Islam is winning on converts.
Even if this is the kind of Church young people want were we not told, "What doth it profit a man, to gain the whole world, and forfeit his life?," or "And you shall be hated by all men for my name's sake: but he that shall persevere unto the end, he shall be saved."
This spirit she is speaking of is the same reason why the Church is spirutually dead now since it is the same spirit of Vatican II, wanting to be relevant to the world and meet the world halfway.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/guest-voices/post/the-church-young-catholics-want/2013/02/14/de08eae2-760a-11e2-95e4-6148e45d7adb_blog.html
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The only thing that matters is what type of Church God wants.
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Beware when the Church tries to make Jesus a "cool dude."
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If I had to guess I would guess that most young people want a Church that tells them that their sins are not really sins and says that God loves them just the way they are and will welcome them into heaven despite their sins. And even then, they will not bother going to the Church anyway except for maybe once or twice a year.
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If I had to guess I would guess that most young people want a Church that tells them that their sins are not really sins and says that God loves them just the way they are and will welcome them into heaven despite their sins. And even then, they will not bother going to the Church anyway except for maybe once or twice a year.
No. Young people want a Church that tells them the truth and holds them to a standard.
They've got plenty of churches, including the Novus Ordo, that "tells them that their sins are not really sins and says that God loves them just the way they are and will welcome them into heaven" and most of them depart as soon as they are able to do so.
Young people want direction and the Novus Ordo doesn't give them direction.
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No. Young people want a Church that tells them the truth and holds them to a standard.
Hmm I dunno. The majority of young people want to be very tolerant and nice towards other people these days, supporting abortion, ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity, and affirmative action, including myself at least in my younger days, since I too was drawn into left-wing ideology at a young age when I was in high school.
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Christ set a barrier between the things of the world and His, the Church and the world. As we've seen, uniting the Church and the world has been disastrous.
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Actually, TG20, I think I can bring a little clarity (for once) to a discussion.
Having worked with youth from elementary-school age to young adults, I can tell you for certain that the teen and young adult crowd these days (in this latest generation, born in the late 80s and early 90s) is motivated by ONE major thing:
BENEFIT.
As in, "what immediate, quantifiable benefit will X relationship/interaction/purchase/etc hold for me?"
Why do you see thousands of young adults on trains and buses with their noses in their smartphones and laptops? Because answering email, sending tweets, working on a paper for school... ALL these things have MORE immediately-perceivable benefit than talking to a stranger does.
On a purely human level, this latest generation ignores churches largely because the UNKNOWN factors, like potential for friendships, potential for change/spiritual growth, etc are FAR outweighed by activities and relationships that they KNOW will produce benefits for them.
On the other, sad, side of the coin, however, you can see that having a work-week so driven by benefit and productivity leaves their "free time" open for them to pursue every hedonistic, perverted desire they can imagine.
I've known brilliant young people who can think, talk and work RINGS around their parents' generation to spend their weekends getting blind-sick-poisonous DRUNK. I mean, nearly-kill-yourself drunk.
Why? Because when you fuel your life with the imaginary stuff of benefit-based thinking, while being devoid of any spiritual life in Christ, all your non-productive time is vain, pointless and empty, and YOU CAN FEEL IT. You might not KNOW to SAY it that way, but it's true, it hurts and you'll do anything to numb that pain.
This is why the Church was at Her most powerful in the world when schooling, the arts, even labor work, were all provided by and subsidized by Her in countries around the world. True discipleship takes place when the Faith is at the center of all you do, not when you have to try and lay a veneer of "religion" over your worldly pursuits. People used to get taught, a la St. Benedict, that work was potentially holy and useful to the soul. Now they're taught that work is worldly, everything is worldly, and then you go tack "church" on to the end of it. No wonder people, even those in Newchurch every week, think their "priests" are out of touch.
The people running NewRome are worldly businessmen, not sanctified shepherds, so they are operating in such a way as to make a sinner's potential benefit from attending "mass" seem greater. The sinners IN Newchurch are presenting what their fellow sinners OUTSIDE Newchurch want to see and hear. Pathetic.
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No. Young people want a Church that tells them the truth and holds them to a standard.
Hmm I dunno. The majority of young people want to be very tolerant and nice towards other people these days, supporting abortion, ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity, and affirmative action, including myself at least in my younger days, since I too was drawn into left-wing ideology at a young age when I was in high school.
When you held to these ideologies, were you drawn to attendance at the novus ordo, or were you just more accepting of it? I find that the same people who talk about how great vatican II was and how great the new direction of Francis is, tend not to go to novus ordo services. Those truly drawn to worshipping God, will not be fooled by the novus ordo. When I was younger, I was very religious. The novus ordo slowly widdled away my Faith, until I no longer felt any need to attend. I searched for good novus ordo parishes, but finally resigned myself to my lack of Faith. If the priests at any parish talked about tolerance towards gαys, or about how we should keep silent on abortion, I definitely would not have shown up again.
Young people might be very liberal these days and think that bergoglio is great, but that does not make them any more likely to attend. Those who think that the new direction in the church is good, tend towards atheism and agnosticism. Those with true religiosity will not be impressed. He's not winning any converts; only those who say they want to convert because it's the hip thing right now.
These are the types of people who are saying they'd like to convert: Future 'Catholic' convert (http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/339629/opinion/10-things-pope-francis-has-done-that-make-me-consider-becoming-catholic)
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No. Young people want a Church that tells them the truth and holds them to a standard.
Hmm I dunno. The majority of young people want to be very tolerant and nice towards other people these days, supporting abortion, ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity, and affirmative action, including myself at least in my younger days, since I too was drawn into left-wing ideology at a young age when I was in high school.
When you held to these ideologies, were you drawn to attendance at the novus ordo, or were you just more accepting of it? I find that the same people who talk about how great vatican II was and how great the new direction of Francis is, tend not to go to novus ordo services. Those truly drawn to worshipping God, will not be fooled by the novus ordo. When I was younger, I was very religious. The novus ordo slowly widdled away my Faith, until I no longer felt any need to attend. I searched for good novus ordo parishes, but finally resigned myself to my lack of Faith. If the priests at any parish talked about tolerance towards gαys, or about how we should keep silent on abortion, I definitely would not have shown up again.
Young people might be very liberal these days and think that bergoglio is great, but that does not make them any more likely to attend. Those who think that the new direction in the church is good, tend towards atheism and agnosticism. Those with true religiosity will not be impressed. He's not winning any converts; only those who say they want to convert because it's the hip thing right now.
These are the types of people who are saying they'd like to convert: Future 'Catholic' convert (http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/339629/opinion/10-things-pope-francis-has-done-that-make-me-consider-becoming-catholic)
But these are also the very people who will not convert even if they end up going to a Conciliar church.
The people TraditionalGuy20 described are not people who are looking for a church. They are young people looking for another social club. The young people who are looking for "religion", actually wanting to know if God exists and, if so, what one must do to be saved, want Truth above all else.
No. I stand by my comments. And SoldierOfChrist confirms them.
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Young people might be very liberal these days and think that bergoglio is great, but that does not make them any more likely to attend. Those who think that the new direction in the church is good, tend towards atheism and agnosticism. Those with true religiosity will not be impressed. He's not winning any converts; only those who say they want to convert because it's the hip thing right now.
These are the types of people who are saying they'd like to convert: Future 'Catholic' convert (http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/339629/opinion/10-things-pope-francis-has-done-that-make-me-consider-becoming-catholic)
You are not lying that there is nothing attractive about the Vatican II Mass, which is why even those who say they "like it" don't even attend, which is shown by the lack of attendence at Sunday Mass.
Anyway when I was left-wing, Soldier of Christ I was a deist, and started out as a Social Democrat, then I became liberal; I then converted to Catholicism through the Novus Ordo and was Republican/neoconservative, and then I came to Traditional Catholicism and was drawn to traditional conservatism.
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The people TraditionalGuy20 described are not people who are looking for a church. They are young people looking for another social club. The young people who are looking for "religion", actually wanting to know if God exists and, if so, what one must do to be saved, want Truth above all else.
No. I stand by my comments. And SoldierOfChrist confirms them.
Hmm you're not lying. That is why the Traditional Latin Mass has its strongest following amongst the young. Let's face it, the "coffeehouse" clerics of the 60's and 70's became irrelevant and looked rediculous.
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No. Young people want a Church that tells them the truth and holds them to a standard.
We must know different kinds of young people. Most of the young people I know are hedonists who just want to get intoxicated, get high on drugs, and have lots of sex. They are searching for their next high or their next lay rather than searching for the truth.
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We must know different kinds of young people. Most of the young people I know are hedonists who just want to get intoxicated, get high on drugs, and have lots of sex. They are searching for their next high or their next lay rather than searching for the truth.
Considering the down-thumbs it looks like you and I are anti-young people. :smirk:
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Considering the down-thumbs it looks like you and I are anti-young people. :smirk:
But the baby boomer generation is no better . . . taking viagra every night and sleeping with their second or third wives in invalid marriages.
With the Church in shambles evil reigns. Most people are evil today.
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But the baby boomer generation is no better . . .
Ha anyone who reads my posts knows much much I go on about the baby boomers so I agree.
One can also add the "Greatest Generation" to that list.
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Christ set a barrier between the things of the world and His, the Church and the world. As we've seen, uniting the Church and the world has been disastrous.
Sorry, I meant hit thumbs up!! I honestly agree wholeheartedly!!
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Ah yes this is the kind of Catholic Church young people want; a church that is tolerant towards everyone and dares not assert that her religion is superior to all others, a church that is "inclusive" and recognizes Jesus supports ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity and ordaning women, a church that must listen to the laypeoples' "experience," a church that is "relevant to the world," etc.
Well I know that the majority of young people these days are leftist so maybe what this article is saying is true on that young people want "this," however this religion this author wants the Catholic Church to become is very boring, bland and weak, a reason Islam is winning on converts.
Even if this is the kind of Church young people want were we not told, "What doth it profit a man, to gain the whole world, and forfeit his life?," or "And you shall be hated by all men for my name's sake: but he that shall persevere unto the end, he shall be saved."
This spirit she is speaking of is the same reason why the Church is spirutually dead now since it is the same spirit of Vatican II, wanting to be relevant to the world and meet the world halfway.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/guest-voices/post/the-church-young-catholics-want/2013/02/14/de08eae2-760a-11e2-95e4-6148e45d7adb_blog.html
This sounds like the Catholic Church that nuns of a certain age in pants suits in colors not found in nature want.