One thing I have never really understood with traditional catholic organizations like the SSPX and the CMRI is how come they require couples to wait 6 months before getting married? I think that is unnecessary if the couple is already aware of their marital responsibilities. I don't understand why one or two meetings between the priest and the couple isn't sufficient. Was this 6 month waiting period customary before Vatican II?

One thing I have never really understood with traditional catholic organizations like the SSPX and the CMRI is how come they require couples to wait 6 months before getting married? I think that is unnecessary if the couple is already aware of their marital responsibilities. I don't understand why one or two meetings between the priest and the couple isn't sufficient. Was this 6 month waiting period customary before Vatican II?

It would seem to be one of those "traditions" from the 1950s.  (which is when "pre-Cana" came in.  given the track record of pre-Cana - it's something that should dumped in the ash heap)

1950s morality puts avoiding sin way down the list in importance.

Giving children a chance to enjoy 1950s "youth culture" - going out alone together in cars, etc - having overnight drinking parties for mixed groups of teens  (which Mater Dominici defended) - are fifiesist assumptions about life that must be eradicated from Catholic traditionalism if there is to be any hope of preserving integral Catholicism.

It is traditional Catholic teaching that a young couple should be preparing for a speedy marriage if they spend time together alone frequently.  Unfortunately words like "speedy" can be made relative - and we know that priests with liberal tendencies always bend such words - so six months after an engagement is "speedy" to them - no matter how long the couple has known each other before that time.

Go to CAF and see what they say - there are NO bishops literally saying couples should wait years to get married.  Wet behind the ears posters like Spiritus Sanctus - raised in this culture and implicitly taking its assumptions uncritically - posted many thoughts that were essentially the same - saying people should have "experience" dating before marriage.  Those familiar with authentic Traditionalism know that such ideas are anathema to the Catholic conception of sɛҳuąƖ morality.

Why is a speedy marriage demanded?  Because the nature of sɛҳuąƖ attraction is not at all conducive to a long period of waiting - particularly when the decision to marry has been made.

We know that clandestine marriages without witnesses were once considered valid.  Why did the Church wait so long to impose an impediment preventing such marriages?  Because of the immense importance placed on avoiding fornication.  A clandestine marriage might be sinful, but it was less sinful than fornication.

It's quite obvious - whether consciously or unconsciously - modern people don't really believe in taking necessary steps to avoid sin if they think an arbitrary minimum of six months wait is necessary.

Modern people - and that includes most trads and trad parents - wink at sɛҳuąƖ sins committed by young couples or are in denial.

Quote from: curiouscatholic23

One thing I have never really understood with traditional catholic organizations like the SSPX and the CMRI is how come they require couples to wait 6 months before getting married? I think that is unnecessary if the couple is already aware of their marital responsibilities. I don't understand why one or two meetings between the priest and the couple isn't sufficient. Was this 6 month waiting period customary before Vatican II?

It would seem to be one of those "traditions" from the 1950s.  (which is when "pre-Cana" came in.  given the track record of pre-Cana - it's something that should dumped in the ash heap)

1950s morality puts avoiding sin way down the list in importance.

Giving children a chance to enjoy 1950s "youth culture" - going out alone together in cars, etc - having overnight drinking parties for mixed groups of teens  (which Mater Dominici defended) - are fifiesist assumptions about life that must be eradicated from Catholic traditionalism if there is to be any hope of preserving integral Catholicism.

It is traditional Catholic teaching that a young couple should be preparing for a speedy marriage if they spend time together alone frequently.  Unfortunately words like "speedy" can be made relative - and we know that priests with liberal tendencies always bend such words - so six months after an engagement is "speedy" to them - no matter how long the couple has known each other before that time.

Go to CAF and see what they say - there are NO bishops literally saying couples should wait years to get married.  Wet behind the ears posters like Spiritus Sanctus - raised in this culture and implicitly taking its assumptions uncritically - posted many thoughts that were essentially the same - saying people should have "experience" dating before marriage.  Those familiar with authentic Traditionalism know that such ideas are anathema to the Catholic conception of sɛҳuąƖ morality.

Why is a speedy marriage demanded?  Because the nature of sɛҳuąƖ attraction is not at all conducive to a long period of waiting - particularly when the decision to marry has been made.

We know that clandestine marriages without witnesses were once considered valid.  Why did the Church wait so long to impose an impediment preventing such marriages?  Because of the immense importance placed on avoiding fornication.  A clandestine marriage might be sinful, but it was less sinful than fornication.

It's quite obvious - whether consciously or unconsciously - modern people don't really believe in taking necessary steps to avoid sin if they think an arbitrary minimum of six months wait is necessary.

Modern people - and that includes most trads and trad parents - wink at sɛҳuąƖ sins committed by young couples or are in denial.

Great post, Tele, and I completely agree with you.

You really think 3 months is enough time to really get to know someone? There are people who I've talked to almost every day for YEARS and we don't know much about each other. :furtive: :furtive: :furtive:

It's long enough to find out what needs to be known.  If you can know someone for years without really knowing them - then that's because of human nature - we can't usually know everything about someone else no matter how long we know them.  Particularly the darker side of their character.

Maybe there were regional differences.
Possibly the wait because engagements were much shorter.

For example, lets say I wake up tomorrow. I go outside and take a walk in the park. I happen to meet a very pretty, very catholic, young woman who I think would make a good mother. There is interest chemistry. We exchange numbers. I call her every night. I go over to her house and meet her family....etc..etc. We go to mass together.......Within 2-3 weeks we decide to get married. I have a good job that can support a family. There is a lot of sɛҳuąƖ desire between us now and it is hard to avoid fornication. Now I go to the SSPX/SSPV/CMRI priest and he tells us we gotta wait 6 months, even though we have been properly catechised are devoted to the faith????? Whats up with that???? Makes no sense to me.

I know Telesphorus scoffs at the concept of maturity, claiming it's a euphemism for sɛҳuąƖ experience

I would say, it's also a euphemism for a good income if you're a man, and a euphemism for being desperate to marry before it's too late if you're a woman.

Betrothals are not about "wait and see" to see if a person is someone they really wish to marry.  Betrothals are binding commitments that can be an impediment to marrying someone else.  Betrothals can be broken off - sometimes it becomes apparent a marriage must be broken off.  But such things if they are not known within a couple months will likely not be known.

For that reason, a man should never let a woman pressure him into a promise of engagement unless he truly wishes to marry a woman.  

[SOME] Women do play games.  They will try to force a man's hand into making a promise.  The marriage is planned - and then - near the end - she breaks off the engagement.    

This is not unheard of.  A note to all young men - this society gives you no advantages for committing yourself.  [MOST] Women today often do not respect men who are willing to commit themselves and their hearts.

It must be emphasized how extremely important it is to choose wisely and not allow yourself to be pressured or hurried.  Only choose a woman who is truly committed to a Christian life - otherwise, you're in for a world of pain.  And don't expect the traditional clergy to be on your side.  [MANY] Men today are suckers (and sometimes priests are really bad in this respect) for feminine wiles- more than ever before.

I hope you don't get upset with me because I qualified your statements, Tele. I really do agree with you in a lot of ways, but you have to qualify this somehow, instead of lumping us all (even the GOOD ones) in with the rest of the "diseased herd," okay?