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Author Topic: XavierSem - Will He Answer the Simple Question?  (Read 4112 times)

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Re: XavierSem - Will He Answer the Simple Question?
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2021, 09:33:22 PM »
I already answered your question n times, and I will answer it again after you answer mine, on Cornelius, in a new thread. If I answer yours now, you will run away without answering mine, as you've already been doing in every single thread. You are either unable or unwilling to defend what you believe. I can and I have. I will give you a preview of my answer by posting what I said to Donkath earlier,

"Dear Donkath, I must have answered Last Tradhican's question on what I believe like 10 times, including on this [St. John Vianney] thread, but he doesn't want to hear it. I don't believe anyone will be saved without conversion, without at least explicit faith in Jesus Christ and perfect contrition. I gave Last Trad a source from Cardinal Burke and Bishop Athanasius Schneider, which the SSPX endorsed, that said no one is saved without faith in Christ as true God and Savior. Last Trad absurdly implied this didn't mean what it said. Bishop Athanasius Schneider has been arguing against salvation by implicit faith for a long time [a well known fact], and I agree with H.E.

I've been trying to search for what exactly Bishop Fellay believes, and am not sure H.E. believes the Hindu in question would be saved without conversion. Since H.E. is still alive, someone can contact and ask: This is what H.E. said recently, "Once again, the Holy See’s response was to say: “That is not from the Magisterium.” And quite recently you have a docuмent published by Cardinal Koch on relations with the Jҽωs (Docuмent of the Pontifical Commission for Religious Relations with the Jҽωs, December 10, 2015). It is a terrible docuмent, completely heretical, which claims that the Jҽωs can be saved without coming through Our Lord (par. 36). Exactly the opposite of what Sacred Scripture teaches us, along with the first pope himself, Saint Peter, who says this to the Jҽωs: “There is no other name under heaven given to men, whereby we must be saved” (Acts 4:12). In other words, there is no other means of being saved except through Our Lord. And here Cardinal Koch thinks that you can make a statement saying the contrary. But, he tells us in black and white (in the Preface): “This is not doctrinal teaching.”

But then what game are they playing? They teach without teaching. This causes confusion everywhere. It is a new attitude. Until now it was clear to every Catholic that when Rome speaks: Roma locuta est, causa finita est. Rome speaks, Rome teaches, and that’s the end of the discussion. And here they are telling us that, no, “it is intended to be a starting point for further theological thought.” https://sspx.org/en/can-pastoral-council-be-debatable

Re: XavierSem - Will He Answer the Simple Question?
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2021, 09:54:02 PM »
The questions are simple and yet you do not have the ability to answer them? Maybe all you can do is spam.

I don't need to consult the pope, Bp. Williamson, Bp. Fellay or anyone else to answer what I believe. Yet, you do not answer my simple question. Their quotes are right in front of you. Does language mean anything to you? Apparently not.


Re: XavierSem - Will He Answer the Simple Question?
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2021, 09:58:06 PM »
What are you looking for, precisely? Do you want me to condemn Archbishop Lefebvre or Bishop Fellay? I'm not going to do that.

I've already answered what I believe. You are really blind if you can't or don't want to see it. What Bp. Fellay believes is an open question. Someone who has his contact address can email H.E. and find out Bishop Fellay's stance on the Explicit-Implicit Faith Question. I believe in Explicit Faith. I don't know for sure what Bishop Fellay believes. If you want to know, mail and ask H.E.

Re: XavierSem - Will He Answer the Simple Question?
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2021, 10:13:38 PM »
What are you looking for, precisely? Do you want me to condemn Archbishop Lefebvre or Bishop Fellay? I'm not going to do that.
If you do not condemn them, then you agree with them. Just admit it and say why and be done with it.

They and you both contradict the Athanasian Creed, which you falsely claimed to uphold. You play games to get around all the dogmas including the Athanasian Creed in your teaching that no one but God knows who the infidels are and who did not die with the Catholic Faith, not having received Baptism of Desire or Perfect Contrition in the last seconds when God appeared to them. Their belief is the same as yours in a way, that Baptism of desire can save people in all religions who "only appear" to have died as non-Catholics, but when God reveals Himself to them, they can convert and be saved without baptism.

Your "variety of salvation by implicit faith (and all varieties of implicit faith) has never  been taught by any Father, saint, doctor, pope.  

Re: XavierSem - Will He Answer the Simple Question?
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2021, 10:16:38 PM »
Dogmas are the final word from the Holy Ghost, being ex cathedra definitions, they must be taken literally, unequivocally, and absolutely. Hence, to attempt to modify or qualify them in any way is to deny them. The doctrine says clearly that only Catholics go to Heaven; all others are lost, that is, they do not go to Heaven, but to Hell. All who are inclined to dispute this dogma should have the good sense to realize that if this is not what the words of the definitions mean, the Church would never have promulgated such a position. To give any other meaning to these words is to portray the Church as foolish and ridiculous.


The pronouncements indicate that, by divine decree, those only will be saved who are members of the Church when they die. This membership must be formal, real, explicit, and, in those of the (mental) age of reason, deliberate. There is no such thing as "potential" membership in the Church, or "implicit" membership, or "quasi-membership," or "invisible membership," or anything of the kind. Neither can those who are catechumens, that is, those who are preparing to enter the Church, be considered members. Let the reader accept the reasonable fact that the Pontiffs who pronounced these decrees were perfectly literate and fully cognizant of what they were saying. If there were any need to soften or qualify their meanings, they were quite capable of doing so.



Here are excerpts from some dogmas on EENS and how they are responded to (in red) by those who teach that Jҽωs, Mohamedans, Hindus, Buddhists, any person in all false religions, can be saved by their belief in a god the rewards. Enjoy!


Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, “Cantate Domino,” 1441, ex cathedra:

“The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jҽωs or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire ..and that nobody can be saved, … even if he has shed blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.” (pagans and Jҽωs can be saved by their belief in a god that rewards, thus they are in the Church. They can’t be saved even if they shed their blood for Christ, but they can be saved by a belief in a god that rewards.)


Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, Constitution 1, 1215, ex cathedra: “There is indeed one universal Church of the faithful, outside of which nobody at all is saved, …(Persons in all false religions can be part of the faithful by their belief in a god that rewards)


Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam, Nov. 18, 1302, ex cathedra:

“… this Church outside of which there is no salvation nor remission of sin… Furthermore, … every human creature that they by absolute necessity for salvation are entirely subject to the Roman Pontiff.” (Persons in all false religions by their belief in a god that rewards are inside the Church, so they can have remission of sin. They do not have to be subject to the Roman Pontiff because they do not even know that they have to be baptized Catholics, why further complicate things for tem with submission to the pope?)



Pope Clement V, Council of Vienne, Decree # 30, 1311-1312, ex cathedra:

“… one universal Church, outside of which there is no salvation, for all of whom there is one Lord, one faith, and one baptism…” (one lord, one faith by their belief in a god that rewards, and one invisible baptism by, you guessed it,  their belief in a god that rewards)




Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Sess. 8, Nov. 22, 1439, ex cathedra:

“Whoever wishes to be saved, needs above all to hold the Catholic faith; unless each one preserves this whole and inviolate, he will without a doubt perish in eternity.” ( the Catholic faith is belief in a god that rewards)




Pope Leo X, Fifth Lateran Council, Session 11, Dec. 19, 1516, ex cathedra:

“For, regulars and seculars, prelates and subjects, exempt and non-exempt, belong to the one universal Church, outside of which no one at all is saved, and they all have one Lord and one faith.” (Just pick a few from the above excuses, from here on it’s a cake walk, just create your own burger with the above ingredients. You’ll be an expert at it in no time.)


Pope Pius IV, Council of Trent, Iniunctum nobis, Nov. 13, 1565, ex cathedra: “This true Catholic faith, outside of which no one can be saved… I now profess and truly hold…”


Pope Benedict XIV, Nuper ad nos, March 16, 1743, Profession of Faith: “This faith of the Catholic Church, without which no one can be saved, and which of my own accord I now profess and truly hold…”



Pope Pius IX, Vatican Council I, Session 2, Profession of Faith, 1870, ex cathedra: “This true Catholic faith, outside of which none can be saved, which I now freely profess and truly hold…”




Council of Trent, Session VI  (Jan. 13, 1547) Decree on Justification, Chapter IV.

A description is introduced of the Justification of the impious, and of the Manner thereof under the law of grace.
By which words, a description of the Justification of the impious is indicated,-as being a translation, from that state wherein man is born a child of the first Adam, to the state of grace, and of the adoption of the sons of God, through the second Adam, Jesus Christ, our Saviour. And this translation, since the promulgation of the Gospel, cannot be effected, without the laver of regeneration, or the desire thereof, as it is written; unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God (John 3:5). (this means you do not need to be baptized or have a desire to be baptized. You can be baptized invisible by desire or no desire, you can call no desire “implicit” desire, you can also receive water baptism with no desire, no, wait a minute that does not go in both directions for the water baptism, it only works for desire or if you have no desire at all. Come to think of it, just forget about all of it, persons in false religions can be justified by their belief in a god that rewards.)


Chapter VII. What the justification of the impious is, and what are the causes thereof.

This disposition, or preparation, is followed by Justification itself, which is not remission of sins merely, but also the sanctification and renewal of the inward man, through the voluntary reception of the grace, and of the gifts, whereby man of unjust becomes just, and of an enemy a friend, that so he may be an heir according to hope of life everlasting.

Of this Justification the causes are these: the final cause indeed is the glory of God and of Jesus Christ, and life everlasting; while the efficient cause is a merciful God who washes and sanctifies gratuitously, signing, and anointing with the holy Spirit of promise, who is the pledge of our inheritance; but the meritorious cause is His most beloved only-begotten, our Lord Jesus Christ, who, when we were enemies, for the exceeding charity wherewith he loved us, merited Justification for us by His most holy Passion on the wood of the cross, and made satisfaction for us unto God the Father; the instrumental cause is the sacrament of baptism, which is the sacrament of faith, without which no man was ever justified;(except all persons in false religions, they can be justified by their belief in a god that rewards)


Pope Eugene IV, The Council of Florence, “Exultate Deo,” Nov. 22, 1439, ex cathedra:  “Holy baptism, which is the gateway to the spiritual life, holds the first place among all the sacraments; through it we are made members of Christ and of the body of the Church.  And since death entered the universe through the first man, ‘unless we are born again of water and the Spirit, we cannot,’ as the Truth says, ‘enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:5].  The matter of this sacrament is real and natural water.” (Just ignore that language, all persons in false religions can be justified by their belief in a god that rewards)


Council of Trent. Seventh Session. March, 1547. Decree on the Sacraments. On Baptism
Canon 2. If anyone shall say that real and natural water is not necessary for baptism, and on that account those words of our Lord Jesus Christ: "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God (John 3:5), are distorted into some metaphor: let him be anathema.( any persons in false religions can be invisible baptized and justified by their belief in a god that rewards)


Canon 5. If any one saith, that baptism is optional, that is, not necessary unto salvation; let him be anathema (the pope is also speaking here of the invisible baptism of persons in false religions that are baptized and justified by their belief in a god that rewards)


Pope Pius XII, Mystici Corporis (# 22), June 29, 1943: “Actually only those are to be numbered among the members of the Church who have received the laver of regeneration and profess the true faith.”( the laver of regeneration can be had invisible and the true faith is  belief in a god that rewards)


Pope Pius XII, mєdιαtor Dei (# 43), Nov. 20, 1947: “In the same way, actually that baptism is the distinctive mark of all Christians, and serves to differentiate them from those who have not been cleansed in this purifying stream and consequently are not members of Christ orders sets the priest apart from the rest of the faithful who have not received this consecration.” ( persons who believe in a god that rewards do not need the mark, but they are in the Church. Somehow)


(Oh, I forgot invincible ignorance, no one mentions it anymore, it is now out of fashion, so I did not include it above. If you are old fashioned, just throw in a few invincible ignorants up there with the rest of the ingredients)