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Author Topic: Will the Real Catechism of Pius X Please Stand Up?  (Read 14647 times)

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Offline Last Tradhican

Re: Will the Real Catechism of Pius X Please Stand Up?
« Reply #55 on: August 13, 2019, 10:11:49 AM »
Quote from: Stubborn on August 13, 2019, 09:54:32 AM
I've only ever seen it that way. And imo, it makes sense since the faith is necessary for worthy reception of the sacrament. The two go hand in hand.

Which explains why those baptized in prot churches or outside the Church and without the proper intention (because they do not have the faith) are sinful.
The (faith) stands out like a sore thumb. I just looked up Denzinger in Latin from 1946, edited by Karl Rahner and it does not have the (faith), and that is Karl Rahner! It looks like it was added by an English speaker or Rahner did not bother to change the Latin.

You are interpreting (faith) as a Catholic who follows dogma, but the modernists will use it to teach what they taught at VatII, that any unbaptized can have has faith. Looks like a plant.
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Offline Stubborn

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Re: Will the Real Catechism of Pius X Please Stand Up?
« Reply #56 on: August 13, 2019, 10:14:08 AM »
Quote from: Last Tradhican on August 13, 2019, 09:19:04 AM
It was very easy to have everyone in Limbo of the Patriarchs baptized, and infinitely more likely than that anyone today can be justified without faith in anything Catholic, which is what 99% of false BODers believe.
So if no one is justified without the sacrament, is that what you think happened? That the OT were justified in Limbo?
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Offline Stubborn

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Re: Will the Real Catechism of Pius X Please Stand Up?
« Reply #57 on: August 13, 2019, 10:18:23 AM »
Quote from: Last Tradhican on August 13, 2019, 10:11:49 AM
The (faith) stands out like a sore thumb. I just looked up Denzinger in Latin from 1946, edited by Karl Rahner and it does not have the (faith), and that is Karl Rahner! It looks like it was added by an English speaker or Rahner did not bother to change the Latin.

You are interpreting (faith) as a Catholic who follows dogma, but the modernists will use it to teach what they taught at VatII, that any unbaptized can have has faith. Looks like a plant.
Well faith had meaning during Trent, which is why it makes some type of sense to me. As such, it could make sense for that same reason that it was edited it out of Denzinger? - which as previously posted a long time ago here on CI, malicious editing is a common occurrence with Denzinger.
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Offline Last Tradhican

Re: Will the Real Catechism of Pius X Please Stand Up?
« Reply #58 on: August 13, 2019, 10:22:19 AM »
Quote from: Stubborn on August 13, 2019, 10:14:08 AM
So if no one is justified without the sacrament, is that what you think happened? That the OT were justified in Limbo?
I've always thought that those in Limbo of the Patriarchs were under the old law which did not require baptism. As far as if they were in a state of sanctifying grace (justified) I never thought about it. I do not believe they could be in the same state of grace as those that are baptized, because those that are baptized are born again by the blood of Christ. Remember that Limbo of the Patriarchs was not just Jews, it contained 5000 years of peoples of all races and beliefs, from all over the world.
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Offline Stubborn

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Re: Will the Real Catechism of Pius X Please Stand Up?
« Reply #59 on: August 13, 2019, 10:24:25 AM »
Quote from: RomanTheo on August 10, 2019, 04:32:17 PM
17 Q. Can the absence of Baptism be supplied in any other way?

A. The absence of Baptism can be supplied by martyrdom, which is called Baptism of Blood, or by an act of perfect love of God, or of contrition, along with the desire, at least implicit, of Baptism, and this is called Baptism of Desire.
 This reply is from Neil Obstat about 5 years ago:

How can the absence of something be supplied by something else?

This quote from the catechism says that martyrdom can supply the absence of baptism.  

Why would anyone want to be supplied the absence of baptism?

If you want to cook breakfast and don't have any eggs, would a shopping trip SUPPLY your absence of eggs?  Or would a shopping trip REMEDY your absence of eggs?

A platoon commander running out of ammunition, when asking for supplies, would he say that he is requisitioning to be supplied an absence of bullets?

The choice of words is highly ambiguous, at least.  This goes to show that catechisms are not a source of doctrinal definition.  They are only a tool for teaching, and can therefore contain errors that the censors overlooked. 
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