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Author Topic: Will the Real Catechism of Pius X Please Stand Up?  (Read 14981 times)

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Offline Stubborn

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Re: Will the Real Catechism of Pius X Please Stand Up?
« Reply #30 on: August 12, 2019, 09:54:50 AM »
Dogma: They were not justified when they died. See above, the Council of Trent.
Conclusion: They were justified later, not before the Lord died.

You should stop writing and start forgetting about Feeney and start studying the Decree on Justifaction of the Council of Trent.
You should call all priests FATHER. Disrespecting priests is unjust.

At any rate, Fr. Feeney was not claiming that infidels can be justified, in that quote, he was pandering to the liberals.  Further on, he says:


Q. Can anyone now be saved without Baptism of Water?
A. No one can be saved without Baptism of Water.
Q. Are the souls of those who die in the state of justification
saved, if they have not received Baptism of Water?
A. No. They are not saved.
Q. Where do these souls go if they die in the state of justification but have not received Baptism of Water?
A. I do not know.
Q. Do they go to Hell?
A. No.
Q. Do they go to Heaven?
A. No.
Q. Are there any such souls?
A. I do not know! Neither do you!

Q. What are we to say to those who believe there are such
souls?
A. We must say to them that they are making reason prevail
over Faith, and the laws of probability over the Providence of God.


Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Will the Real Catechism of Pius X Please Stand Up?
« Reply #31 on: August 12, 2019, 10:00:58 AM »
Quote
Dogma: They were not justified when they died. See above, the Council of Trent.
1.  Trent's doctrines do not apply to the Old Testament to the same degree as the New.
2.  When Scripture says that someone was "just", it means they were holy.  Justification is another name for the "state of grace".
3.  Those who went to the "Limbo of the Just" after they died, went there because they died in a "just" state.
4.  They could not enter heaven because Christ had not yet died and redeemed mankind.


Re: Will the Real Catechism of Pius X Please Stand Up?
« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2019, 12:10:47 PM »
At any rate, Fr. Feeney was not claiming that infidels can be justified, in that quote, he was pandering to the liberals.  Further on, he says:


Q. Can anyone now be saved without Baptism of Water?
A. No one can be saved without Baptism of Water.
Q. Are the souls of those who die in the state of justification
saved, if they have not received Baptism of Water?

You simply repeat the error of Feeney which contradicts the Council of Trent, as if the contradiction would cease to exist if you repeat the error.



A. No. They are not saved.
Q. Where do these souls go if they die in the state of justification but have not received Baptism of Water?

Here, Feeney himself repeats that same error.


A. I do not know.
Q. Do they go to Hell?
A. No.
Q. Do they go to Heaven?
A. No.
Q. Are there any such souls?
A. I do not know! Neither do you!


We do know that there are no souls who die in the state of justification without having been baptized, since the Council of Trent teaches so. Feeney contradicts the Council of Trent, the Decree on Justification.


Q. What are we to say to those who believe there are such
souls?
A. We must say to them that they are making reason prevail
over Faith, and the laws of probability over the Providence of God.

We must say to Feeney that he makes his own ideas prevail over Faith, contradicting the Council of Trent.

Offline Stubborn

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Re: Will the Real Catechism of Pius X Please Stand Up?
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2019, 12:24:54 PM »
If you cannot call a priest Father, then you definitly have a problem.  Work on correcting that problem before you worry about anything else.

Re: Will the Real Catechism of Pius X Please Stand Up?
« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2019, 12:45:14 PM »
1.  Trent's doctrines do not apply to the Old Testament to the same degree as the New.

Trent teaches On the Inability of Nature and of the Law to justify man. And Trent teaches that after the promulgation of the gospel baptism is the instrumental cause of justification.

Stubborn and you reject this teaching after the text has been pasted right in front of your noses. Instead, you keep defending the heresy that a man who has not been baptized can die justified.


2.  When Scripture says that someone was "just", it means they were holy.  Justification is another name for the "state of grace".

There was no sanctifying grace before Our Lord died. There was no state of grace before our Lord died. There was noone justified before our Lord died. Those called just in the Old Testament, went to hell (limbo). Noone is in hell in the state of grace.

Start reading and studying the Council of Trent instead of spreading error after error.


3.  Those who went to the "Limbo of the Just" after they died, went there because they died in a "just" state.
4.  They could not enter heaven because Christ had not yet died and redeemed mankind.

That's the teaching of Pax Vobis who refuses to look at the teaching of the Church.

They could not be justified, they could not be in the state of grace, because they could not have "received the benefit of His death", since Our Lord hadn't died yet. They were "under the power of the devil and of death" which is why they had to wait in hell.

You contradict clear Church teaching on the Inability of Nature and of the Law to justify man.