Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Will the Real Catechism of Pius X Please Stand Up?  (Read 14829 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Will the Real Catechism of Pius X Please Stand Up?
« Reply #75 on: February 24, 2020, 03:09:28 PM »
@Ladislaus

See the link in the first line of my post you quote. It leads to a page full of links. The second heading there is

Docuмenti scritti da Pio X [sic]

The first three links under that heading are links to catechisms.

Or just search for "catechismo" on that page.

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Will the Real Catechism of Pius X Please Stand Up?
« Reply #76 on: February 24, 2020, 03:26:23 PM »
@Ladislaus

See the link in the first line of my post you quote. It leads to a page full of links. The second heading there is

Docuмenti scritti da Pio X [sic]

The first three links under that heading are links to catechisms.

Or just search for "catechismo" on that page.

OK, thank you.  I was looking earlier in the thread too.  I don't believe that Father Feeney's position on justification is necessarily an error.  Trent just says that the Sacrament of Baptism is the instrumental cause of justification.  This does not preclude this instrumental causality happening via the votum to receive it.  That's precisely what keeps BoD from being outright heretical.  Clearly it's dogma that the Sacrament is absolutely necessary for salvation.  But is it necessary to be received in re or can it still operate instrumentally through the votum to receive it.  Trent teaches that the Sacrament of Confession is also necessary to restore the fallen to a state of justification, but Trent teaches that this Sacrament can work its effect through the votum to receive it.


Offline trad123

  • Supporter
Re: Will the Real Catechism of Pius X Please Stand Up?
« Reply #77 on: February 21, 2021, 03:29:19 PM »
https://www.cathinfo.com/baptism-of-desire-and-feeneyism/will-the-real-catechism-of-pius-x-please-stand-up/msg689380/#msg689380



Quote
On the website of the Museo San Pio X in Salzano (Venezia) there are digital transcripts of three versions of what is called "Catechism of Pius X" including


Scanning the text for "batt"esimo (baptism), "sang"ue (blood), and "desi"derio (desire) I could not find any reference to BoB or BoD.


The other two later versions found on that site do talk about Battesimo di sangue, Battesimo di desiderio, desiderio almeno implicito etc.



https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://www.museosanpiox.it/sanpiox/catechismo.html



Quote
The catechism of Don Giuseppe Sarto, Archpriest of Salzano

The first news of the existence in the Episcopal Archives of Treviso of a "manuscript catechism of Don Giuseppe Sarto" was given in 1954 by Mons. Francesco Tonolo in Catechesi (As a parish priest Pius X taught the Catechism, Don Giuseppe Sarto, Catechesi, XXIII (1954), pp. 367-376). After the announcement made by Tonolo, we do not know that any study has been published on this docuмent. A few hints, some reflections in degree theses [eg: A. BALOCCO, Theological-pastoral trends and attitudes in today's diocesan catechisms of national diffusion, Milan 1958 (Thesis at the Gregorian University); S. DALLE FRATTE, The work of Canon Giuseppe Sarto,Treviso 1967 (Thesis at the University of S. Tommaso in Rome); M. BARTOLUCCI, The pastoral perspectives of the catechetical ministry of St. Pius X, academic year 1971-1972 at the Lateran University]. Nor is it mentioned in scientific works on the history of the catechism of St. Pius X. Don Luciano Nordera, of the Salesian Theological Studio in Saval, Verona, is preparing a wide-ranging scientific study on the genesis of the Catechism of St. Pius X ( 1912). The publication of the full text of the "Salzano notebooks" will bring, we are sure, a contribution for the study of the various phases of the thought and work of Pope Sarto in the plan of catechesis.

As regards the date of composition of this "catechism", we know nothing that can establish it with certainty. In the Episcopal Archive of Treviso we read a docuмent that dates back to the first year in which the Sarto was parish priest of Salzano: the decree of Bishop Zinelli on the pastoral visit to that parish on 20 December 1867. It reads: «With true satisfaction of we have made sure that children are very well instructed in Christian doctrine ”. In 1872, Bishop Zinelli, in his Pastoral Letter of Lent, demonstrated "the need to give a more regular order to the teaching of Christian Doctrine" and, in June of the same year, invites the parish priests to give new impetus to the "Confraternity of Doctrine Christian ";he re-elaborates the Regulations and arranges a new edition of the diocesan Catechism, which was actually published the following year.

Was it on this occasion that the parish priest of Salzano compiled his "catechism"? Or does the drafting date back to the early days of his parish ministry, at a time when the bishop already noted "with real satisfaction" that his children were "very well educated in Christian doctrine"?

The docuмent consists of two notebooks of 16 x 22 format. Each page has a layout of 23 lines. On both covers we read: «Don Giuseppe Sarto Archpriest of Salzano». The Questions and Answers are written on the right side of each sheet; the left side is left free for didactic notes or for some questions added later. The Questions are not numbered or interrupted by titles or, in any case, by any division. We have replaced the letters D. and R. (Question and Answer) with the number of the progressive numbering. The two notebooks are each made up of 32 sheets. The first is written in full; the second up to sheet 18 recto.

As already mentioned, the manuscript bears 252 variations, all by the hand of the Sarto.


Quote
THE TRUE CHURCH - "One, because the truth is only one" - "the Bishop of Rome .. . center of unity " .

263 - How Many Real Churches Are There?

[f. 43] The true Church is one, and out of this one cannot hope for Health

264 - How, those who are outside the Church are not saved?

No sir, it is not Health


Quote
271 - Why is it called Roman?

Because the Roman Church is the head of all, because the Bishop of Rome, being the successor of St. Peter, becomes the Vicar of GC. and therefore the center of unity.

"ALL MEMBERS OF ONE FAMILY because all help each other" - the faithful who live on earth. .. the saints in heaven .. . souls in purgatory ».

In the "communion of saints" - in the "sharing of goods" - "all sanctified in baptism" - "all called to holiness" .

272 - Only the faithful who live on earth belong to the true Church ?

Also the Saints in heaven, and the souls in Purgatory.

273 - What is the name of the Church of the Faithful on earth?

The Church of the Faithful on earth is called militant because the Faithful on earth militate and fight to obtain the glory of Heaven.


Re: Will the Real Catechism of Pius X Please Stand Up?
« Reply #78 on: March 15, 2021, 07:16:25 PM »
The false BODers, the Implicit Faither's continue to quote the same doctored up lines from an English translation of a catechism written in Italian and only named after Pius X. They use that local catechism against all the dogmas on EENS and the Athanasian Creed.

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Will the Real Catechism of Pius X Please Stand Up?
« Reply #79 on: March 17, 2021, 01:09:39 PM »
Here's the ENTIRE section on Baptism in the original hand-written manuscript.  Not a peep about BoD or BoB.

431 - Che cosa è il Battesimo?
Un Sacramento.
432 - Che cosa fa in noi questo Sacramento?
Cancella il peccato originale, e ci rende figliuoli di Dio e della Chiesa.
433 - Il Battesimo toglie forse soltanto dall'anima il peccato originale?
Nò - toglie anche i peccati attuali, se chi lo riceve ne avesse commessi e libera da tutte le pene dovute al peccato.
434 - Chi dunque morisse subito dopo il Battesimo non avrebbe Purgat?
No egli andrebbe diritto al Paradiso
435 - Oltre che liberarci dal peccato, cosa porta nella nostra anima il Battesimo?
Porta la grazia abituale - vale a dire ci amici di Dio pianta nella nostra anima la semenza delle virtù della [f. 62] fede, della Speranza, della Carità, e imprime il carattere
436 - Che cosa vuol dire la parola Battesmo?
La parola Battesimo vuol dire: lavanda
437 - Qual'è la materia di questo Sacramento?
E' l'acqua naturale.
438 - E la forma?
E' questa: Io ti battezzo nel nome del Padre e del Figliuolo e dello Spirito Santo.
439 - Chi è il ministro di questo Sacramento?
Il Vescovo e il Paroco - col permesso però possono battezzare anche li altri Sacerdoti e i Diaconi - e in caso di necessità tutti possono battezzare