CathInfo.com

4) for the record, I am with Struthio here, and there is more proof in Trent than what he posted.

So Last Tradhican, what's your take on the Old Testament saints? Yes, they went to Limbo ("hell") and did make it to heaven for their eternity after Christ's Ascension into heaven, so how did they get into heaven if they were not in the state of justification when they died?

Struthio believes his own opinion that they were justified after they died while in Limbo. I might be mistaken, but I think it was Fr. Feeney who opined that all the souls in Limbo were baptized after Christ descended into hell, before He Ascended into heaven. Not sure where I read it but he said it was only his opinion. Which seems to align more with Struthio's idea.

Now Trent speaks of the "instrumental cause" of justification; "the instrumental cause is the sacrament of baptism, which is the sacrament of faith, without which (faith) no man was ever justified..."

Trent goes on and speaks of the "alone formal cause", which (for me any way) seems to not include the "instrumental cause";

"...lastly, the alone formal cause is the justice of God, not that whereby He Himself is just, but that whereby He maketh
us just, that, to wit, with which we being endowed by Him, are renewed in the spirit of our mind, and we are not only reputed, but are truly called, and are, just, receiving justice within us, each one according to his own measure, which the Holy Ghost
distributes to every one as He wills, and according to each one's proper disposition and co-operation. For, although no one can be just, but he to whom the merits of the Passion of our Lord Jesus Christ are communicated, yet is this done in the said
justification of the impious, when by the merit of that same most holy Passion, the charity of God is poured forth, by the Holy Spirit, in the hearts of those that are justified, and is inherent therein: whence, man, through Jesus Christ, in whom he is
ingrafted, receives, in the said justification, together with the remission of sins, all these (gifts) infused at once, faith, hope, and charity".

Bottom Line is that the above details would never had occurred to any of us were it not for the fact that all of Catholicism has gone nuts and today believes that anyone can be saved outside of the Church. THAT is the problem.

Worse than that: folks call themselves Catholic but reject defined Catholic dogma, reject truth fallen from heaven, thus calling God a liar.

Whether they want to see the whole world saved, or catechumens only, or whether they want to see the OT fathers justified before the death of Our Lord. It's all the same: They call God a liar by rejecting His Church teaching absolute truth.

And worse are those who reject Catholic dogma, even when it's put in front of their nose. How can they hope to justify such action on Judgement Day? How can they run around hoping to correct others, and at the same time refuse to correct their own errors?



P.S.: @Stubborn
Nobody says "this is opposed to the opinion of Fr Suarez". All say "this is opposed to the opinion of Suarez".