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Author Topic: Why Feeneyites Hate Catholic Teaching  (Read 19275 times)

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Re: Why Feeneyites Hate Catholic Teaching
« Reply #145 on: August 23, 2017, 08:46:30 AM »
Quote
This, then, is the teaching which Pope Pius IX insisted that the Bishops of the Catholic Church should give to their people, in order to keep out of the minds of those people the false doctrines which could ruin their spiritual lives. The Singulari Quadam brings out the following teachings much more clearly and explicitly than previous ecclesiastical declarations on the necessity of the Church for salavation [sic] had done.

(1) It is a ruinous error to imagine that one can have grounds of hope that people now dead, and who had not entered into the Church in any way during the course of their lives, are saved.

(2) The dogma that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church is in no way opposed to the truth that God is all-merciful and all-just.

(3) The doctrine that no one is saved outside the Catholic Church is a truth revealed by God through Jesus Christ, and a truth which all men must believe with the assent of divine faith. It is a Catholic dogma.

(4) Invincible ignorance, of the true Church or of anything else, is not considered by God as a sin. The dogma that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church in no way implies that invincible ignorance is sinful.

(5) It is an impious and deadly error to hold that salvation may be attained in any religion.

(6) It is not within the field either of our competence or of our rights to search out the way in which God's mercy and His justice operate in any given case of a person ignorant of the true Church or of the true religion. We shall see how these divine attributes have operated in the light of the Beatific Vision itself.

(7) It is the business of the Church to work and to pray that all men will attain salvation in the Church.

[8] God is never outdone in generosity. The person who tries to come to Him will never be forsaken. As a matter of fact, the movement toward God, like all good things, originates from God Himself. Fenton

Re: Why Feeneyites Hate Catholic Teaching
« Reply #146 on: August 23, 2017, 11:18:09 AM »
You are the one claiming the Pope is teaching "salvation outside the Church".
You are the one that is lying.

I make no such claim.  Provide the quote.  Feeneyites rely on lies, calumny and detraction to "defend" their heretical position.


Re: Why Feeneyites Hate Catholic Teaching
« Reply #147 on: August 23, 2017, 11:42:35 AM »
I understood this to mean that you believe that the Pope is now saying there is salvation outside the Church. This is what you said.
If this is not what you meant it doesn't really matter. You are saying that invincible ignorance saves. The person doesn't know God, his laws or revelation, and has not been Sacramentally Baptized (which is where true justification begins) which couldn't be better definition for outside the Church.
I am not saying that.  This is the classic feeneyite defense mechanism when they cannot logically defend their heresy. False accusation.  Ignorance by itself neither save or damns a man.  Nor water by itself.  But sanctifying grace.  Do you dare to disagree?

Re: Why Feeneyites Hate Catholic Teaching
« Reply #148 on: August 23, 2017, 12:40:50 PM »
So you don't deny that you were saying that the Pope is teaching that there is now salvation outside the Church?

You're saying that one can receive sanctifying grace without all those things that I mentioned. How could a man, ignorant of all things Catholic, receive sanctifying grace, or perfect contrition/charity? Those things are meaningless without Faith which is only bestowed upon Baptism.

St. Thomas says that such a person will be led to the Catholic faith if they are invincibly ignorant. You are saying a person can be saved without that faith. The Church has declared there is no Salvation outside of the Catholic Faithful. You make that a meaningless formula because the faithful are Baptized members of the Church.
I do deny that.  I accept EENS.  It is indeed possible to be in a state of sanctifying grace apart from baptism when sacramental baptism is impossible.  Supernatural Faith and perfect charity is given to us by God.  He gives us the actual graces necessary to seek and find the truth.  It is a process.  Those who are not aware of the necessity of baptism, through no fault of their own, can obtain sanctifying grace before being baptized.  This is the teaching of the Church.  

Re: Why Feeneyites Hate Catholic Teaching
« Reply #149 on: August 23, 2017, 01:13:54 PM »
"… impossible…" Man, the faith is rolling off this one like the waves at Laguna at no tide…
I do deny that.  I accept EENS.  It is indeed possible to be in a state of sanctifying grace apart from baptism when sacramental baptism is impossible.  Supernatural Faith and perfect charity is given to us by God.  He gives us the actual graces necessary to seek and find the truth.  It is a process.  Those who are not aware of the necessity of baptism, through no fault of their own, can obtain sanctifying grace before being baptized.  This is the teaching of the Church.