You think John 1:9 suggests that every single human being actually knows or is able to know about Christ and the Trinity? How exactly do you reconcile that with sheer reason? (BTW, I do not believe this verse says this.
It means that every person is born with a conscience. It means all are born with the knowledge of God and the natural law. Those that *try* to follow the natural law/10 commandments (i.e. have good will), will be given the graces to convert. As Scripture says, God wills that all "come to the knowledge of the Truth." (i.e. knowledge of Christ).
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To answer your question...is every human being "able" to know about Christ and the Trinity? Yes, they are able, and God will provide, if they have good will, because God can read all hearts, which we cannot. Those whom God does not give such graces to, He deemed that they would not accept, as only He can know. To argue that a man lived his whole life desiring religious truth and God withheld it from him, thus damning him to hell forever, is a supreme blasphemy (not saying you believe this, but many argue such, without thinking of the conclusions of their emotional complaints).
Let us not forget that salvation is a supreme mystery which no man can explain or understand because no man can read another's heart, nor know the inspirations/graces that God has given Him, nor the graces which than man rejected.Well one, the text does say whoever believes and is baptized is saved, but it doesn't *necessarily* say that everyone who isn't baptized, will be damned.
Yes it does. The requirements are 1) belief and 2) baptism. Christ said that those who do not believe are condemned, because obviously, if they do not believe, they will not be baptized. And the reception of baptism without belief is null anyway. Secondly, this is why I included the 2nd quote, from John 3: Jesus answered: Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.This tells us what baptism is: water and the Holy Ghost. Nothing more, nothing less. The Church has expounded on these doctrines and reiterated them many times in Her councils, which doctrines must be believed to gain heaven.Two, the text has in view those creatures to whom the gospel was indeed preached. It seems, at the least, that *this* text does not address the fate of those who simply have not heard the gospel.
Christ told the Apostles, "go and preach the gospel to the whole world." Does God want people to save their souls or not? Would God create requirements that were impossible to fulfill? Is God a savage tyrant who creates souls and human beings, only to have pleasure at sending them to hell?
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Let us remember that salvation is a mystery. Let us also remember that salvation is a gift from God; it is not a right. Salvation is a choice to be made by all men. ...a choice many times which is made in the interior soul, a choice made by the conscience. A choice to believe or not to believe. Can anyone measure this? Can anyone have proof of the # of times that God beckoned a soul to Himself? No. How can we measure or know that individuals have not heard the gospel? The gospel for the Israelites was simple - 1) believe in the coming redeemer and 2) follow the 10 commandments/natural law. The pre-gospel for non-catholics then, is the same: 1) believe in God, 2) follow the 10 commandments/natural law. All men, therefore, have the "gospel" on their hearts when they are born. If they follow this gospel, God will give them greater graces and give them the True religion. If they cannot follow the basic gospel, then for God to have the Catholic gospel preached to them is to "cast pearls before swine".
Three, it doesn't specify exactly what level of precision of "belief" Jesus is talking about. Certainly to obstinately deny even one dogma leads to certain damnation, but also obviously knowledge of every dogma isn't necessary. So what's the bare minimum threshold to count as "belief" in this passage? The passage doesn't say.
Why would you expect it to? You can't read 1 or 2 verses and expect it to explain everything. That's the protestant mind coming out in you. The basic doctrines required to receive baptism are the belief in the Incarnation (which is the fulfillment of God's promise to Adam and Eve for a Redeemer, and thus a completion of the Jєωιѕн religion) and a belief in the Trinity.
I suppose you couldn't repent of existing, but you could presumably have perfect contrition for any mortal sins you have, as well as the desire of baptism.
You're mixing and matching arguments. We were talking about an "invincibly" ignorant person. They could not desire baptism because they don't even know what it is. They could repent of their sins, sure. They would still be stained with Original Sin, so they could not gain heaven. But they would go to Limbo and not hell.
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It is said that though abortion is a great evil, since God allows sin because of free will, this means His permissive will allows abortion to occur. However, for all those babies who are aborted, one saint said that this is an act of mercy from God because many of those babies might have grown up and be sent to hell. Yet in dying innocently (except for Original Sin), they will go to Limbo, a place of natural happiness, and while this is not heaven, they would still avoid hell for all eternity. What a just and loving God!
Because that's the way God set it up. By analogy, a cancer patient *could* be healed directly by God, if God wanted to do that, but ordinarily medicines are used. And God set up water baptism as the normative means to save souls from original sin and past mortal sins. To spurn that just because God *could* do something else in an extraordinary case of inability is presumption, and is a good way to make sure you end up damned.
Your analogy doesn't work because the Church has never sanctioned the idea that people can get to heaven outside of baptism. The Church is bound by Scripture and Tradition. Nowhere in either is it taught, authoritatively, that one can gain heaven outside of water baptism and the Holy Ghost.
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Secondly, whether God can "bend the rules" is not up for debate. Christ and the Church teach a,b,c are required and that's that. Plenty of saints/theologians have speculated on the rule bending but they don't speak for the Church. And I think such speculation is dangerous because we are trying to
humanly understand the
Divine salvific process. And this is a recipe for questioning God, losing one's Faith and prideful anger at not being able to understand the mind of God.
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As God tells us in Scripture, which applies to all men: "Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you." What man is created that God does not know who is parents will be, or when in history he will live, or in what city or in what house he will take his first breath of life? What man is created that God did not provide his intellect, his talents, his virtues and vices, his personality his hopes, dreams and fears? What man lives on earth whom God does not sustain every second of his life, every breath he takes, every movement of every muscle and activity of the brain? Does God create life and yet not know where this life is? Does God create human beings out of love, yet not desire that these humans love Him in return? Does God not create every man to return love for love, and to gain heaven?
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Of course he does. How does He do this? We can never understand, and it is a dangerous job to try, as God told Job ...chap 38:
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Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? tell me if thou hast understanding.
5Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest or who hath stretched the line upon it? 6Upon what are its bases grounded? or who laid the corner stone thereof, 7When the morning stars praised me together, and all the sons of God made a joyful melody? Hast thou entered into the depths of the sea, and walked in the lowest parts of the deep?
17Have the gates of death been opened to thee, and hast thou seen the darksome doors? 18Hast thou considered the breadth of the earth? tell me, if thou knowest all things. Didst thou know then that thou shouldst be born? and didst thou know the number of thy days?
36Who hath put wisdom in the heart of man? or who gave the cock understanding? 37Who can declare the order of the heavens, or who can make the harmony of heaven to sleep? 1{39:31}And the Lord went on, and said to Job: 2{39:32}Shall he that contendeth with God be so easily silenced? surely he that reproveth God, ought to answer him. .
Then in chapter 42, after God humbled Job with asking him to explain how everything that God created works, which Job could not do, Job humbleth himself and said:
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1Then Job answered the Lord, and said: 2I know that thou canst do all things, and no thought is hid from thee. 3Who is this that hideth counsel without knowledge? Therefore I have spoken unwisely, and things that above measure exceeded my knowledge. 4Hear, and I will speak: I will ask thee, and do thou tell me. 5With the hearing of the ear, I have heard thee, but now my eye seeth thee. 6Therefore I reprehend myself, and do penance in dust and ashes.