Author Topic: Who is Brother Nathanael? (Read 29581 times)

Marcelino · « **Reply #15 on:** June 04, 2012, 12:16:43 AM »

Quote from: MConstantine

I wouldn't trust it/him.

There is already plenty of good Catholic coverage of the Jєωιѕн Imperialism that is sufficiently scholarly and intelligent.

This guy seems to go out of his way to look like a whacko, which of course makes all people who decry Judaism look like whackos.

Like who?

MConstantine · « **Reply #16 on:** June 04, 2012, 01:20:50 AM »

Quote from: Marcelino

Quote from: MConstantine
I wouldn't trust it/him.

There is already plenty of good Catholic coverage of the Jєωιѕн Imperialism that is sufficiently scholarly and intelligent.

This guy seems to go out of his way to look like a whacko, which of course makes all people who decry Judaism look like whackos.

Like who?

There's E. Michael Jones' Culture Wars: http://www.culturewars.com ; the Maurice Pinay Blog: http://mauricepinay.blogspot.ca/ and (I think he's Catholic) Michael Hoffman's blog, On the Contrary, here: http://revisionistreview.blogspot.ca/ .

All of them are fairly intellectual.

Sigismund · « **Reply #17 on:** June 04, 2012, 06:01:43 AM »

Quote from: Marcelino

Quote from: Sigismund
From ROCOR,

This is a good question. Brother Nathaniel runs to his own beat. It is my understanding that he is no monk, nor does he have an affiliation with ROCOR.

The monastery he attended has left ROCOR. Perhaps that has something to do with the way they answered you.

From Mt. Athos to Boston
Fr. Panteleimon, of Greek descent, became a monk on Mt Athos at St. Pantelemon's Monastery. He later joined the New Skete, and with the blessing of Elder Joseph the Hesychast, moved to the Boston area and founded the Holy Transfiguration Monastery.
1960-1970
The monastery was founded in the winter of 1960 in Haverhill, Massachusetts. A modest house was acquired in early 1961 in Jamaica Plain. The house served well until numbers began to grow and more space was needed.
In 1965, Fr Panteleimon and the monastery left the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, accusing it of ecuмenism and modernism, and entered the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia.
1970-Present
The current location of the Monastery is a 3-Story Mansion, built in 1881 in Brookline, Massachusetts. The adjoining coach house has been converted to cells to accommodate the monks. The Monastery property is mostly wooded, and is about 19 acres. Some land is set aside for the keeping of goats, which provide milk and cheese for the monks.
Amidst various moral accusations, the monastery left ROCOR, accusing it of modernism and ecuмenism, and went into various Greek Old Calendarist jurisdictions and, finally, into being the principal monastery for the schismatic Holy Orthodox Church in North America.

http://www.wikinfo.org/English/index.php/Holy_Transfiguration_Monastery_(Brookline,_Massachusetts)?rdfrom=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wikinfo.org%2Findex.php%3Ftitle%3DHoly_Transfiguration_Monastery_%28Brookline%2C_Massachusetts%29%26redirect%3Dno

Thanks. That is very interesting. One of the possibilities I mentioned was that he was attached so some non-canonical group that is no more Orthodox than Old Catholics are Catholic. It looks like this may be the case.

Capt McQuigg · « **Reply #18 on:** June 04, 2012, 09:48:59 AM »

I was under the impression that "Old Catholic" priests are recognized as validly ordained even by the novus ordo - if I'm incorrect, please correct.

Capt McQuigg · « **Reply #19 on:** June 04, 2012, 09:49:48 AM »

I've never heard of "Brother Nathaniel" nor have I ever been to his website. I'll check it out and give my opinion.

alaric · « **Reply #20 on:** June 04, 2012, 06:44:22 PM »

Quote from: Sigismund

From ROCOR,

This is a good question. Brother Nathaniel runs to his own beat. It is my understanding that he is no monk, nor does he have an affiliation with ROCOR.

That is opinion and conjecture, not proof.

A N.O priest might make the same comment about SSPX.

alaric · « **Reply #21 on:** June 04, 2012, 06:49:50 PM »

Quote from: Marcelino

Quote from: Sigismund
From ROCOR,

This is a good question. Brother Nathaniel runs to his own beat. It is my understanding that he is no monk, nor does he have an affiliation with ROCOR.

The monastery he attended has left ROCOR. Perhaps that has something to do with the way they answered you.

From Mt. Athos to Boston
Fr. Panteleimon, of Greek descent, became a monk on Mt Athos at St. Pantelemon's Monastery. He later joined the New Skete, and with the blessing of Elder Joseph the Hesychast, moved to the Boston area and founded the Holy Transfiguration Monastery.
1960-1970
The monastery was founded in the winter of 1960 in Haverhill, Massachusetts. A modest house was acquired in early 1961 in Jamaica Plain. The house served well until numbers began to grow and more space was needed.
In 1965, Fr Panteleimon and the monastery left the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, accusing it of ecuмenism and modernism, and entered the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia.
1970-Present
The current location of the Monastery is a 3-Story Mansion, built in 1881 in Brookline, Massachusetts. The adjoining coach house has been converted to cells to accommodate the monks. The Monastery property is mostly wooded, and is about 19 acres. Some land is set aside for the keeping of goats, which provide milk and cheese for the monks.
Amidst various moral accusations, the monastery left ROCOR, accusing it of modernism and ecuмenism, and went into various Greek Old Calendarist jurisdictions and, finally, into being the principal monastery for the schismatic Holy Orthodox Church in North America.

http://www.wikinfo.org/English/index.php/Holy_Transfiguration_Monastery_(Brookline,_Massachusetts)?rdfrom=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wikinfo.org%2Findex.php%3Ftitle%3DHoly_Transfiguration_Monastery_%28Brookline%2C_Massachusetts%29%26redirect%3Dno

So they're schismatics from a schismatic church? :confused1:

Might the same thing happen to some SSPXer's with the new "agreement" with Rome?

Sigismund · « **Reply #22 on:** June 04, 2012, 07:06:15 PM »

From the OCA
"To whom it may concern:

While I am not sure to which group the individual in question belongs, I do know that it is not the OCA, nor any of the jurisdictions that are represented on the Assembly of Canonical Orthodox Bishops of North and Central America, the successor to SCOBA. From what little I know of him or can discern from the internet, he belongs to a group based in Colorado that is not in communion with any Assembly-related jurisdiction."

From the patriarchate
"Hello,
This person, a.k.a. Brother Nathaniel, has nothing to do with the Moscow Patriarchate."

He is not a member of ROCOR. He is not a member of the OCA )Or any canonical Orthodox jurisdiction). He is not a member of the Patriarchate. He is not a canonical Russian Orthodox Monk.

Sigismund · « **Reply #23 on:** June 04, 2012, 07:07:04 PM »

Quote from: alaric

Quote from: Sigismund
From ROCOR,

This is a good question. Brother Nathaniel runs to his own beat. It is my understanding that he is no monk, nor does he have an affiliation with ROCOR.
That is opinion and conjecture, not proof.

A N.O priest might make the same comment about SSPX.

And if he said the SSPX is not canonical, he would be right. That isn't even debatable. The point is, does canonicity matter?

Marcelino · « **Reply #24 on:** June 04, 2012, 09:59:48 PM »

Quote from: alaric

Quote from: Marcelino
Quote from: Sigismund
From ROCOR,

This is a good question. Brother Nathaniel runs to his own beat. It is my understanding that he is no monk, nor does he have an affiliation with ROCOR.

The monastery he attended has left ROCOR. Perhaps that has something to do with the way they answered you.

From Mt. Athos to Boston
Fr. Panteleimon, of Greek descent, became a monk on Mt Athos at St. Pantelemon's Monastery. He later joined the New Skete, and with the blessing of Elder Joseph the Hesychast, moved to the Boston area and founded the Holy Transfiguration Monastery.
1960-1970
The monastery was founded in the winter of 1960 in Haverhill, Massachusetts. A modest house was acquired in early 1961 in Jamaica Plain. The house served well until numbers began to grow and more space was needed.
In 1965, Fr Panteleimon and the monastery left the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, accusing it of ecuмenism and modernism, and entered the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia.
1970-Present
The current location of the Monastery is a 3-Story Mansion, built in 1881 in Brookline, Massachusetts. The adjoining coach house has been converted to cells to accommodate the monks. The Monastery property is mostly wooded, and is about 19 acres. Some land is set aside for the keeping of goats, which provide milk and cheese for the monks.
Amidst various moral accusations, the monastery left ROCOR, accusing it of modernism and ecuмenism, and went into various Greek Old Calendarist jurisdictions and, finally, into being the principal monastery for the schismatic Holy Orthodox Church in North America.

http://www.wikinfo.org/English/index.php/Holy_Transfiguration_Monastery_(Brookline,_Massachusetts)?rdfrom=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wikinfo.org%2Findex.php%3Ftitle%3DHoly_Transfiguration_Monastery_%28Brookline%2C_Massachusetts%29%26redirect%3Dno
So they're schismatics from a schismatic church? :confused1:

Might the same thing happen to some SSPXer's with the new "agreement" with Rome?

I think that might be a good point.

Marcelino · « **Reply #25 on:** June 04, 2012, 10:21:34 PM »

Quote from: Sigismund

Quote from: alaric
Quote from: Sigismund
From ROCOR,

This is a good question. Brother Nathaniel runs to his own beat. It is my understanding that he is no monk, nor does he have an affiliation with ROCOR.
That is opinion and conjecture, not proof.

A N.O priest might make the same comment about SSPX.

And if he said the SSPX is not canonical, he would be right. That isn't even debatable. The point is, does canonicity matter?

I thought canonicity referred to, if something was a book of the bible or not.

Sigismund · « **Reply #26 on:** June 04, 2012, 10:43:24 PM »

It does mean that. It can also apply to an religious order or church. The Melkite Catholic Church is a canonical Catholic Church because it is in communion with the Universal Church and the See of Peter. The Order of Friars Minor is a canonical religious order because their constitutions have been approved by legitimate Catholic authority. Since they are an order of pontifical right, they are approved by the Holy See. (An order of diocesan right would be approved by an diocesan bishop.)

The SSPX In not canonical in the sense that it is not approved by either the Pope or a diocesan bishop. They are irregular. Becoming a regular, canonical society is what Bishop Fellay is seeking.

I should acknowledge that my son, who is a Byzantine rite priest, tells me I have overplayed my hand in equating the Orthodox and Catholic idea of canonicity. "In Orthodoxy," he assures me, "Canonical is always what WE are. Uncanonical is what THEY are."

Marcelino · « **Reply #27 on:** June 05, 2012, 02:05:52 AM »

Quote from: Sigismund

It does mean that. It can also apply to an religious order or church. The Melkite Catholic Church is a canonical Catholic Church because it is in communion with the Universal Church and the See of Peter. The Order of Friars Minor is a canonical religious order because their constitutions have been approved by legitimate Catholic authority. Since they are an order of pontifical right, they are approved by the Holy See. (An order of diocesan right would be approved by an diocesan bishop.)

The SSPX In not canonical in the sense that it is not approved by either the Pope or a diocesan bishop. They are irregular. Becoming a regular, canonical society is what Bishop Fellay is seeking.

I should acknowledge that my son, who is a Byzantine rite priest, tells me I have overplayed my hand in equating the Orthodox and Catholic idea of canonicity. "In Orthodoxy," he assures me, "Canonical is always what WE are. Uncanonical is what THEY are."

So, do you disagree with his videos?

Capt McQuigg · « **Reply #28 on:** June 05, 2012, 04:07:00 PM »

Canonical is what canonical says.

Marcelino · « **Reply #29 on:** June 05, 2012, 08:01:44 PM »

Actually I recently wrote to Brother Kapner and asked him about his status. He referred me to his Bishop, His Grace Jerome of The Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia (ROCOR). So, I did. He said that Brother Kapner is indeed an Orthodox Christian and while he is not a full monk, he is a novice, which makes him a monastic.

The bishop made some additional comments about the "context" of Brother Kapner's comments, which I think may have a lot to do with Brother Kapner's "style." I thought those comments were interesting, but not in any way condemning of Brother Kapner.

God Bless