Author Topic: We Believe What the Church Teaches No Matter What it Is (Read 16776 times)

Raoul76 · « **Reply #35 on:** September 15, 2009, 02:04:12 PM »

Belloc said

Quote

I was of course kidding about Pius IX, etc....one cannot be tortured for what does not know..may or may not keep one from Heaven....but not Hell which is punishment for willful sinners....

Everyone goes to either heaven or hell, have you invented a new region of the afterlife?

Those who go to purgatory expiate their venial sins there and are purified for heaven, so if that's where you think he's going, he's still been chosen for heaven.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #36 on:** September 15, 2009, 06:09:52 PM »

Catholic Martyr,

Don't get the wrong impressing I do try to check all your responses when I can and they have all seemed very familiar. I have thoroughly studied both sides of the issue.

God bless, Mary keep,
John

CM · « **Reply #37 on:** September 15, 2009, 06:20:44 PM »

Quote from: LoT

would you grant he understood Latin better than those who say we misinterpret Trent because of the Latin?

Did he understand Latin better than me? I don't doubt it. Do I say you misinterpret it because of the Latin, per se? No. I don't know why you misinterpret it (my guess is emotionalism), but you clearly do, and you destroy any tangible semblance of infallibility in the process.

Quote from: Raoul76

Everyone goes to either heaven or hell, have you invented a new region of the afterlife?

Hmmm...

Quote from: Belloc

....but not Hell which is punishment for willful sinners....

Which universally binding, infallible authoritative teaching did you get that from Belloc?

I learned exactly the opposite from the following universally binding, infallible authoritative teaching:

Quote from: Pope Eugene IV, at the Council of Florence,

The Holy Catholic Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Catholic Church before the end of their lives;

Quote from: LoT

I have thoroughly studied both sides of the issue.

I have thoroughly studied both sides of the issue.[/quote]

Apparently, but you are believing that God the Holy Ghost, when He makes an infallible definition of dogma through the Pontiff can be either sloppy, or obscure, insomuch as to mean something other than what He clearly said.

In other words, you have chosen to believe the wrong arguments, when you should be believing the original objective sense of the declarations of Holy Mother Church.

CM · « **Reply #38 on:** September 15, 2009, 06:21:37 PM »

Pardon me.

Quote from: LoT

would you grant he understood Latin better than those who say we misinterpret Trent because of the Latin?

Did he understand Latin better than me? I don't doubt it. Do I say you misinterpret it because of the Latin, per se? No. I don't know why you misinterpret it (my guess is emotionalism), but you clearly do, and you destroy any tangible semblance of infallibility in the process.

Quote from: Raoul76

Everyone goes to either heaven or hell, have you invented a new region of the afterlife?

Hmmm...

Quote from: Belloc

....but not Hell which is punishment for willful sinners....

Which universally binding, infallible authoritative teaching did you get that from Belloc?

I learned exactly the opposite from the following universally binding, infallible authoritative teaching:

Quote from: Pope Eugene IV, at the Council of Florence,

The Holy Catholic Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Catholic Church before the end of their lives;

Quote from: LoT

I have thoroughly studied both sides of the issue.

Apparently, but you are believing that God the Holy Ghost, when He makes an infallible definition of dogma through the Pontiff can be either sloppy, or obscure, insomuch as to mean something other than what He clearly said.

In other words, you have chosen to believe the wrong arguments, when you should be believing the original objective sense of the declarations of Holy Mother Church.

Jehanne · « **Reply #39 on:** September 16, 2009, 12:21:39 PM »

Quote from: Pope Eugene IV, at the Council of Florence,

The Holy Catholic Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Catholic Church before the end of their lives;

Note what the Floretine Fathers said, though, "before the end of their lives..." The Fathers understood that repentance could happen right up until the moment of death. For some Protestants and other heretics, schismatics, perhaps even Jews, Muslims, etc., there may be salutatory repentance, that is, repentance at the moment of death. With God, nothing is impossible, right?