Author Topic: We Believe What the Church Teaches No Matter What it Is (Read 16779 times)

Belloc · « **Reply #25 on:** September 15, 2009, 10:43:09 AM »

Quote from: Jehanne

Quote from: spouse of Jesus
BOD is not an americanist thing. It is as old as 5th century.

Agreed. The modern heresy is that of implicit faith. No one taught that prior to Saint Pope Pius IX, who, let's face it, allowed the heresy to spread. He should have condemned it, but he did not. The Syllabus of Errors was a good attempt, but it was still weak. He should have defined it, once and for all.

Dont give CM any ideas, elsewise, Pius IX will enter the ever expanding list of anti-popes.....

Belloc · « **Reply #26 on:** September 15, 2009, 10:49:31 AM »

Quote from: Adesto

May I put two questions to those who deny BOD, BOB and Limbo:

A good, devout Catholic couple conceive a child, but the woman suffers a miscarriage after three or four weeks (as can happen) and does not realize that she had been pregnant. The child clearly could not be baptised, although the parents would have had every intent of baptising their children under normal circuмstances. Does that little soul go to Hell, a place of punishment and fire, for all eternity?

Another scenario (true): St. Margaret Clitherow, a Catholic martyr during the Reformation, was executed through being crushed to death, even though she was carrying an unborn child. Impossible as it was for her to deny Christ in order to save her baby's life, are we to believe that her child, the child of a heroic Catholic martyr, went to Hell to be punished for all eternity because his or her mother died for the Faith?

Aquinas would place children in Limbo, Augustine a place in hell, though not the same punishements of the damned mortal sinners....On the questionof what Heaven is like, I go w/Augustine, but on this, w/Aquinas....CM seems to palce everyone that is not a baptized by water practicing RCC in fires of excruciating Hell, misreading and failing to apply things as many do (akin to the Prot slapping the bible and saying-thats what it says, thats what it meanss w/o dicernment..if it says "cats and dogs fell from sky", said Prot would literally interpret that mammals fell splat from sky to earth)......God hence confined to his own sacrements and lessened.....

Belloc · « **Reply #27 on:** September 15, 2009, 10:50:57 AM »

Quote from: Adesto

May I put two questions to those who deny BOD, BOB and Limbo:

A good, devout Catholic couple conceive a child, but the woman suffers a miscarriage after three or four weeks (as can happen) and does not realize that she had been pregnant. The child clearly could not be baptised, although the parents would have had every intent of baptising their children under normal circuмstances. Does that little soul go to Hell, a place of punishment and fire, for all eternity?

Another scenario (true): St. Margaret Clitherow, a Catholic martyr during the Reformation, was executed through being crushed to death, even though she was carrying an unborn child. Impossible as it was for her to deny Christ in order to save her baby's life, are we to believe that her child, the child of a heroic Catholic martyr, went to Hell to be punished for all eternity because his or her mother died for the Faith?

CM would consign said children to Hell-so ad, to bad his response (since there is no BOB, child is not a blood martyr like say Peter.....tough s$&% in plain lingo on the child, per CM!)

Belloc · « **Reply #28 on:** September 15, 2009, 10:52:23 AM »

Quote from: Jehanne

Quote from: Raoul76
In the first of your examples, Adesto, the Church would say that the child goes to limbo and has a natural happiness, but cannot go to heaven. With no act of the will towards the Catholic Church on the part of the embryo or its mother, who didn't know it existed, how could it possibly be saved?

In the second, it is possible that the desire of the MOTHER to have the baby baptized will suffice. I'm sure that in the last moments of her life that is exactly what she would have been thinking about. St. Augustine talks about this, but I'll have to do a search to find the exact passage.

The Council of Constance would seem to teach that all infants who die without baptism will not go to Heaven:

Condemned Proposition: 6. Those who claim that the children of the faithful dying without sacramental baptism will not be saved, are stupid and presumptuous in saying this.

http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Councils/ecuм16.htm

Not saved, but not in Hell etiher....hence, Limbo!!!!

Belloc · « **Reply #29 on:** September 15, 2009, 10:55:18 AM »

Quote from: Catholic Martyr

Either one missing, no justification. No justification, no heaven. No heaven=hellfire.

So, in your mind it is a either/or proposition, like Prot thinking...no room for Limbo at all, just painful torturous fire???

Like I said your position was, sorry baby, go burn baby!!