Poll

Do You Believe It Likely That Siri Was Ever Pope

No
He was elected but never accepted the office
Yes, for a few minutes until a couple of weeks
Yes, until he went along with tthe Novus Ordo changes
Yes, until his death

Author Topic: WAS SIRI POPE UNTIL HE DIED?  (Read 2428 times)

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Offline roscoe

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Re: WAS SIRI POPE UNTIL HE DIED?
« Reply #60 on: December 07, 2019, 01:00:07 PM »
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  • edit
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline roscoe

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    Re: WAS SIRI POPE UNTIL HE DIED?
    « Reply #61 on: December 07, 2019, 01:06:23 PM »
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  • The reason why many trads (me included, for now, tentatively) are OK with the theory of evolution being debated is because Pope Pius XII said it could be debated (to be clear I don't hold to it, at least right now.)  The extreme feeney hatred seems a bit much to me, though I dont agree with him.  I don't know for sure whether either he or JPII is in Hell, but I prefer him over JPIII.
    The document claiming that Pope Pius XII ex-communicated Fr Feeney is a Fraud.. :fryingpan:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: WAS SIRI POPE UNTIL HE DIED?
    « Reply #62 on: December 07, 2019, 01:26:38 PM »
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  • The reason why many trads (me included, for now, tentatively) are OK with the theory of evolution being debated is because Pope Pius XII said it could be debated (to be clear I don't hold to it, at least right now.)  The extreme feeney hatred seems a bit much to me, though I dont agree with him.  I don't know for sure whether either he or JPII is in Hell, but I prefer him over JPIII.

    That Pope Pius XII put the evolution debate on the table is not a good thing.

    Many trads think he's a Saint, but how would a Saint allow Bugnini, Valtorta and Montini into the Vatican?

    There was a lot of posturing in his papacy, but he never criticized the blood drenched "Uncle" Joe Stalin who stole half of Europe.






    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Matto

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      • Julian Moore
    Re: WAS SIRI POPE UNTIL HE DIED?
    « Reply #63 on: December 07, 2019, 01:29:08 PM »
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  • The reason why many trads (me included, for now, tentatively) are OK with the theory of evolution being debated is because Pope Pius XII said it could be debated (to be clear I don't hold to it, at least right now.)  

    Yes, I was aware of that. The evolutionist snakes throw that in your face whenever anyone upholds the Catholic tradition on creation. I have heard it a thousand times. To them it doesn't matter what the Church taught everywhere and always as divinely inspired tradition for nineteen hundred and fifty years. A tradition that everyone knows about but most Catholics are now ashamed of. Creeping pre-Vatican II liberalism. Snakes. I am far more sympathetic to the geocentrists who I hold as brothers than the evolutionists. Snakes.
    I Love Watching Butterflies . . ..

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: WAS SIRI POPE UNTIL HE DIED?
    « Reply #64 on: December 07, 2019, 01:57:21 PM »
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  • That Pope Pius XII put the evolution debate on the table is not a good thing.

    Well, that and ...

    he opened the door to NFP becoming Catholic Birth Control, allowed the first ecumenical gatherings, various liturgical experimentations (like the "Mass of the Future"), and appointed nearly every single Bishop that would later bring us the glories of Vatican II.

    Whatever you think about Baptism of Desire, Cardinal Cushing was a brazen heretic, a pure religious indifferentist who openly rejected EENS dogma, promoted Billy Graham, participated in non-Catholic services, and was in the pocket of the Boston Jewry.  This is the context Father Feeney came out of.  He was objecting to this religious indifferentism and open rejection of EENS dogma.  Baptism of Desire only entered the question later down the road.  But Pius XII did nothing about the heretic Cushing persecuting good Catholics priests like Father Feeney because the Boston Jewry objected to the fact that he had converted a large number of Jews at Harvard.

    Cardinal Cushing:  "No salvation outside the Church?  Nonsense.  Nobody's going to tell me that Christ came to die for any select group." (as quoted by an admiring biographer)


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: WAS SIRI POPE UNTIL HE DIED?
    « Reply #65 on: December 07, 2019, 02:04:31 PM »
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  • https://www.nytimes.com/1964/10/08/archives/cushing-praises-graham-crusade-cardinal-urges-catholics-to-hear-the.html


    Quote
    CUSHING PRAISES GRAHAM CRUSADE; Cardinal Urges Catholics to Hear the Evangelist

    BOSTON, Oct. 7 (AP)—Richard Cardinal Cushing, Roman Catholic Archbishop of Boston, urged Catholic youths and college students today to attend the Rev. Billy Graham's crusade in Boston Garden. “I am 100 petcent” for the evangelist, Cardinal Cushing said.

    Yeah, right, Father Feeney was the bad guy here.

    Offline Matto

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      • Julian Moore
    Re: WAS SIRI POPE UNTIL HE DIED?
    « Reply #66 on: December 07, 2019, 02:11:52 PM »
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  • For many traditional Catholics, I would say their motto is: "Tradition, c'est le Papa Pie XII". Forgive me if the grammar is mistaken, I used google.
    I Love Watching Butterflies . . ..

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: WAS SIRI POPE UNTIL HE DIED?
    « Reply #67 on: December 07, 2019, 02:13:09 PM »
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  • https://www.nytimes.com/1970/11/03/archives/cardinal-cushing-dies-in-boston-at-75-cushing-cardinal-in-boston.html

    Quote
    In many ways, the prelate was a Cardinal for all the people. Before such pursuits be came standard, he worked tire lessly to build bridges of understanding between Catholics, Protestants and Jews. He preached in synagogues and Masonic temples and Protestant pulpits in what was once the stronghold of Puritanism.

    The Cardinal's impassioned plea at the Second Vatican Council for religious liberty and rejection of the doctrine that held the Jews as a people to be responsible for the crucifixion of Jesus prompted the assembled bishops to break a rule of silence to applaud the crusty Bostonian's heart.



    Offline donkath

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    Re: WAS SIRI POPE UNTIL HE DIED?
    « Reply #68 on: December 07, 2019, 08:35:08 PM »
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  • Quote
    The document claiming that Pope Pius XII ex-communicated Fr Feeney is a Fraud..

    Can you elaborate please?
    "In His wisdom," says St. Gregory, "almighty God preferred rather to bring good out of evil than never allow evil to occur."

    Offline roscoe

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    Re: WAS SIRI POPE UNTIL HE DIED?
    « Reply #69 on: December 07, 2019, 10:55:11 PM »
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  • Pls read After The Boston Heresy Case by Gary Potter. :popcorn:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: WAS SIRI POPE UNTIL HE DIED?
    « Reply #70 on: December 08, 2019, 11:18:03 AM »
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  • Pls read After The Boston Heresy Case by Gary Potter. :popcorn:

    And by Boston Heresy we're talking about Cardinal Cushing rather than Father Feeney  ;)


    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: WAS SIRI POPE UNTIL HE DIED?
    « Reply #71 on: December 08, 2019, 12:51:59 PM »
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  • It was Bishop Cushing, who as one "well respected" was promoted to Cardinal Cushing - - read below to learn a little about the man behind the silenced, slandered and excommunicated Fr. Feeney. Today's BODers carry the torch of +Cushing.

    Link
    Archbishop of Boston Cushing, was made a Cardinal of the Catholic Church by Pope John XXXIII in 1958.
    He was also one of the cardinal electors in the 1963 papal conclave, which selected Pope Paul VI.

    He was on good terms with practically the entire Boston elite.

    Cushing built useful relationships with Jews, Protestants, and institutions outside the usual Catholic community.

    At the Second Vatican Council (1962–1965) Cushing played a vital role in drafting Nostra Aetate, the document that officially absolved the Jews of deicide charge.

    He was deeply committed to implementing the Council's reforms and promoting renewal in the Church. In an unprecedented gesture of ecumenism, he even encouraged Catholics to attend Billy Graham's crusades.

    He was a member of the NAACP.

    Oh, and his sister was married to a Jew



    Link May 1945 - Cushing attends  interfaith dinner

    Link Nov. 1948 -  Archbishop Cushing, dwelling on the need for brotherhood, pledged the friendship of American Catholics with Jews.

    Link April 1949 - Archbishop Cushing says teaching the dogma of No salvation outside the Church is “teaching ideas leading to bigotry.” Group is censured for publishing quarterly magazine contending that persons dying outside the Church could not be saved.

    Link April 1949 - New catechism is changed, now upholds Boston College and Archbishop Cushing claim that there is salvation outside the Church.

    Link Oct. 1949 - Fr. Feeney silenced by Archbishop Cushing for preaching there is no salvation outside the Church.

    Link April 1949 - Cushing states: “This absolute requirement of an explicit desire to join the Catholic Church, as a condition of salvation is clearly wrong. All theologians hold that faith and charity or perfect contrition involving an implicit desire to join the Church suffice for salvation.”

    Link Feb. 1953 - Cushing excommunicated “heresy priest” for disobedience, not for heresy.

    Link
    Nov. 1970  - Cardinal Cushing receives praise from the Jews

    Jewish leaders expressed sorrow today over the death yesterday at the age of 75 of Richard Cardinal Cushing. Archbishop of Boston since 1944 and a friend of Israel and the Jews. Philip E. Hoffman, president of the American Jewish Committee, said “Jewish people throughout the world will always remember with satisfaction Cardinal Cushing’s efforts to achieve an honest and meaningful statement on the Roman Catholic Church and the Jews five years ago in Rome at the Second Vatican Council.” Cardinal Cushing he said, “was at the forefront in this tremendously important endeavor,” and “the positive results of Vatican Council II will be a lasting memorial to the Cardinal.” World Jewry. Mr. Hoffman said, “has lost a friend and champion.” Seymour Graubard, national chairman of the Anti-Defamation League of B’nai B’rith. said Jews the world over will always remember the dramatic plea Cardinal Cushing made on the floor of Vatican Council II five years ago in Rome. “His distinctive voice echoed through the chamber as he asked the Council to “cry out” against “any inequity, hatred or persecution of our Jewish brothers,”

    The UAHC official added that Cardinal Cushing “was a liberal in the truest sense of the word, practicing the principles of ecumenism long before the term became fashionable.”

    Cardinal Cushing, whose efforts at ecumenism extended to synagogue oratory, received a rare tribute when he implored Vatican Council II to reject the doctrine of Jewish guilt for the death of Jesus. The bishops, who normally do not applaud speakers, did so for him.

    Link July 1977 - Fr. Feeney, silenced in 1949, excommunicated in 1953 for condemning the teachings of Boston College that persons outside the Church could attain salvation after death, was reinstated in 1972 without having to recant his position.
    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man." - Fr. Hesse

    Offline roscoe

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    Re: WAS SIRI POPE UNTIL HE DIED?
    « Reply #72 on: December 08, 2019, 02:54:24 PM »
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  • That Pope Pius XII put the evolution debate on the table is not a good thing.

    Many trads think he's a Saint, but how would a Saint allow Bugnini, Valtorta and Montini into the Vatican?

    There was a lot of posturing in his papacy, but he never criticized the blood drenched "Uncle" Joe Stalin who stole half of Europe.






    This is not accurate. I don't know alot about the evolution debate except there is micro and macro. My understanding is that the Pope allowed debate about one & not the other. Some will know better than moi.

    Bugnini was a very deceptive and was obviously dishonest in his relationship w/ the Pope. MO is that Pius XII should not be held responsible for his 'reforms' (which were enacted under the anti-pope John 23.)

    Montini was exiled by the Pope to Milan for suspected Communist sympathy so one cannot say he took no action against him. Pius XII was also caught between a rock & hard place with Hitler & Stalin. My understanding is that he was a very good Pope when confronting Communists.   :popcorn:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: WAS SIRI POPE UNTIL HE DIED?
    « Reply #73 on: December 08, 2019, 03:05:43 PM »
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  • If I recall correctly, the actual excommunication letter appeared to be "ginned-up".

    And the request for Father Feeney to come to Rome did not state the charges Father Feeney was facing.
    This violated Canon Law protocols.

    The letters to Father Feeney were missing the standard Vatican registration numbers and the signatories were of mysterious origin.

    Hopefully, someone has more details on it?
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline roscoe

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    Re: WAS SIRI POPE UNTIL HE DIED?
    « Reply #74 on: December 08, 2019, 03:08:44 PM »
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  • If I recall correctly, the actual excommunication letter appeared to be "ginned-up".

    And the request for Father Feeney to come to Rome did not state the charges Father Feeney was facing.
    This violated Canon Law protocols.

    The letters to Father Feeney were missing the standard Vatican registration numbers and the signatories were of mysterious origin.

    Hopefully, someone has more details on it?
    You may want to edit this post and quote my original for accuracy as it refers to the post before the one directly above. Thanks for reply :popcorn:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


     

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