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Poll

Do You Believe It Likely That Siri Was Ever Pope

No
He was elected but never accepted the office
Yes, for a few minutes until a couple of weeks
Yes, until he went along with tthe Novus Ordo changes
Yes, until his death

Author Topic: WAS SIRI POPE UNTIL HE DIED?  (Read 5626 times)

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Offline Lover of Truth

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Re: WAS SIRI POPE UNTIL HE DIED?
« Reply #120 on: December 12, 2019, 04:48:51 AM »
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  • Someone form another forum was kind enough to share this with me:

    Quote from: McHugh-Callan Moral Theology
    Quote
    Art. 2: ACTS AS HUMAN

    (_Summa Theologica_, I-II, qq. 6-17.)

    22. Human acts are a means to man's Last End, inasmuch as they are
    meritorious--i.e., labors that deserve a recompense (I Cor., iii. 8 ),
    struggles that deserve a crown (II Tim., ii. 5). But works are not
    meritorious unless they are one's own (human) and good (moral); and,
    since the reward is supernatural, they must also be the fruit of grace.
    Hence, we shall speak of acts in the following order: (a) acts as human
    and free (Art. 2); (b) acts as morally good (Art. 3); (c) acts as
    supernaturally meritorious (Art. 4).

    23. Definition.--Those acts are called human of which a man is the
    master, and he is master of his actions in virtue of his reason and his
    will, which faculties make him superior to non-human agents that act
    without reason and freedom. Hence, the following kinds of acts done by
    a human being are not called human: (a) those that are not under the
    control of the mind, because one is permanently or temporarily without
    the use of reason or without knowledge (e.g., the acts done by the
    insane; by those who are unconscious or delirious, under the influence
    of hypnotism or drugs, distracted or carried away by vehement fear,
    anger, etc.; by infants and uninstructed persons); (b) those that are
    not under the control of the will, even though they are known (e.g.,
    automatic acts, such as the acts of the vegetative powers, growth,
    circulation of the blood; pathological acts, such as convulsions; acts
    done under external violence).

    24. Knowledge Requisite for a Human Act.--An act is human, or
    voluntary, when it is deliberately desired; and, since nothing can be
    deliberately desired unless it is known, an act done without knowledge
    is not human or voluntary. Thus, a delirious patient does not will the
    language he uses, for his mind is confused and he does not understand
    what he is saying.

    25. The condition of a person without knowledge is ignorance, which is
    defined as the absence of knowledge in one who is capable of knowing.
    Ignorance is of various kinds. From the viewpoint of that which is not
    known (i.e., of the object of the ignorance), there is ignorance of the
    substance of an act and ignorance of the quality of an act. For
    example, Titus driving rapidly in the dark runs over and kills a pet
    animal of his neighbor, but knows nothing of this happening (ignorance
    of the substance of the act); Balbus, a child, fires a pistol at his
    playmate, not knowing that this causes death (ignorance of the physical
    quality of an act), and that it is the sin of murder (ignorance of the
    moral quality of an act).

    26. With reference to the will of the person who is ignorant, three
    kinds of ignorance may be distinguished.

    (a) Ignorance is concomitant (simultaneous with the act of the will),
    when it is not voluntary, and yet is not therefore the reason of the
    act that follows it, since that act would have been done, even had
    there been knowledge. This may be illustrated by the example of a
    hunter who intended to kill an enemy, and killed him only accidentally
    while shooting at an animal.

    (b) Ignorance is consequent (after the act of the will), when it is
    voluntary, which may happen in different ways: first, when ignorance is
    affected, as when a person expressly desires to remain ignorant about
    his duties, so that he may have an excuse for his sins, or that he may
    not be disturbed in his evil life; secondly, when he neglects to
    acquire the knowledge he ought to possess, as when a hunter kills a
    man, thinking him an animal, because he took no pains to be sure before
    firing.

    (c) Ignorance is antecedent (before the act of the will), when it is
    not voluntary, and is the cause of the act that follows since the act
    would not have been done, if there had been knowledge. For example, a
    hunter who has used reasonable diligence to avoid accidents, kills a
    man whom he mistook for a deer.

    27. With reference to the responsibility of the person who is ignorant,
    there are two kinds of ignorance. (a) Ignorance is invincible when it
    cannot be removed, even by the use of all the care that ordinarily
    prudent and conscientious persons would use in the circuмstances. Thus,
    a person who has no suspicions of his ignorance, or who has tried in
    vain to acquire instruction about his duties, is invincibly ignorant.
    (b) Ignorance is vincible when it can be removed by the exercise of
    ordinary care. There are various degrees of this species of ignorance:
    first, it is merely vincible, when some diligence has been exercised,
    but not enough; secondly, it is crass or supine, when hardly any
    diligence has been used; thirdly, it is affected, when a person
    deliberately aims to continue in ignorance.

    28. Influence of the Various Kinds of Ignorance on the Voluntariness of
    Acts.--(a) Ignorance of an act, whether as to its substance or quality,
    makes an act involuntary, when the ignorance itself is involuntary, as
    will be explained in paragraph 29. Hence, if we refer to ignorance that
    is not blameworthy and to the guilt of violating the law of God, we may
    say: "Ignorance excuses."

    (b) Ignorance does not make an act involuntary before human law, unless
    the law itself presumes the ignorance or the ignorance is proved, as
    will be explained in the Question on Law (see 489 sqq.). For, when law
    is sufficiently promulgated or a fact pertains to one's own self, the
    presumption is that ignorance does not exist, or that it is culpable.
    Hence, the general rule of law common to all forms of jurisprudence:
    "Ignorance does not excuse" (cfr. Canon 16 of the Code of Canon Law).

    29. Effects of Concomitant, Consequent, and Antecedent Ignorance.--(a)
    Concomitant ignorance does not make an act involuntary, because it does
    not cause anything that is contrary to the will; but it does make the
    act that is performed non-voluntary, since what is unknown cannot be
    actually desired.

    (b) Consequent ignorance cannot make an act entirely involuntary, since
    such ignorance is itself voluntary; but it does in a certain respect
    make an act involuntary, i.e., inasmuch as the act would not have been
    done save for the ignorance. (c) Antecedent ignorance makes an act
    entirely involuntary.

    30. Effects of Invincible and Vincible Ignorance.--(a) Invincible
    ignorance, even of what pertains to the natural law, makes an act
    involuntary, since nothing is willed except what is understood. Hence,
    no matter how wrong an act is in itself, the agent is not guilty of
    formal sin (see 249), if he is invincibly ignorant of the malice
    involved.

    (b) Vincible ignorance does not make an act involuntary, since the
    ignorance itself is voluntary; hence, it does not excuse from sin. It
    does not even make an act less voluntary and less sinful, if the
    ignorance is affected in order that one may have an excuse; for such a
    state of mind shows that the person would act the same way, even though
    he had knowledge.

    31. Vincible ignorance makes an act less voluntary and less sinful: (a)
    when the ignorance is not affected, for the voluntariness is measured
    by the knowledge, and knowledge here is lacking; (b) when the
    ignorance, though affected, was fostered only through fear that
    knowledge might compel a stricter way of life; for such a state of mind
    seems to show that one would not act the same way if one had knowledge.

    32. Like to ignorance are the following: (a) error, which is a judgment
    not in agreement with the facts (e.g., Balbus, a young child, thinks
    stealing is lawful, because older persons are represented as stealing
    in the moving pictures); (b) forgetfulness, which is ignorance of what
    was once known (e.g., Titus made a study of his duties as a Catholic
    when he was young, but at present what he does not know about those
    duties is not inconsiderable); (c) inadvertence, which is a lack of
    attention to what is being done (e.g., Caius, who is absent-minded,
    sometimes gets his hair cut and goes away without paying, or takes
    money that does not belong to him).

    33. The principles and conclusions given above with regard to ignorance
    will apply also to error, forgetfulness and inadvertence; for in all
    these cases the lack of actual knowledge at the moment an act is done,
    is either willed or not willed, and accordingly the act itself is
    either voluntary or not voluntary. In the examples mentioned above,
    Balbus does not will the guilt of theft, since he does not know it; but
    his elders do will that guilt, because they should know it. Titus is
    responsible for neglecting his duties, if he has forgotten them through
    his own neglect of them or other fault; otherwise, he is not
    responsible. Caius' inattention is involuntary, if due to mental
    concentration or distraction, and if it is not desired by him; it is
    voluntary, if he is aware of it and cultivates it, or if he does not
    try to be more attentive to his duties.

    34. Consent Requisite for a Human Act.--To be human, an act must
    proceed not only from knowledge, but also from inclination; that is, it
    must be voluntary. Three things are necessary in order that an act be
    voluntary: (a) it must be agreeable to an internal principle, i.e., in
    most moral matters to the will. Hence, an act that is done against
    one's will on account of external violence is not voluntary; (b) it
    must be caused by the will. Hence, a shower of rain is said to be
    agreeable to the gardener, but not voluntary since his will is not its
    cause; (c) it must be performed with a conscious purpose. Hence,
    natural acts (such as sleeping) and spontaneous acts (such as stroking
    one's beard absent-mindedly) are not voluntary acts.

    35. Kinds of Voluntary Acts.-(a) A voluntary act is free or necessary,
    according as one can or cannot abstain from it. The vision of God in
    heaven is voluntary to the blessed, since they look at Him knowingly
    and gladly; but it is not free, since they cannot avert their gaze from
    that which makes them blessed. The love of God on earth is voluntary,
    since chosen; but it is also free, since man is able to turn away from
    God.

    (b) An act is perfectly or imperfectly voluntary, according as the
    deliberation and consent that precede it are full or only partial.

    (c) An act is said to be simply--that is, absolutely--voluntary, when
    it is wished under circuмstances that exist here and now, although in
    itself, apart from those circuмstances, it is not wished. It is said to
    be voluntary under a certain aspect, when it is desired for itself, but
    not under existing conditions. Thus, if an arm needs to be amputated to
    save life, the amputation is absolutely voluntary, while the
    preservation of the arm is voluntary only in a certain respect. Hence,
    an act is voluntary simply or absolutely when one chooses it, all
    things considered; it remains involuntary under a certain respect,
    inasmuch as the choice is made with reluctance.

    (d) An act is voluntary in itself or directly, when it is desired in
    itself for its own sake (i.e., as an end), or for the sake of something
    else (i.e., as a means). It is voluntary in its cause or indirectly,
    when it is not desired in itself, either as a means or an end, but is
    foreseen as the result of something else that is intended. Examples:
    Titus quarrels with his neighbors, at times because he likes to
    quarrel, and at other times because he wishes to make them fear him;
    hence, his quarrels are directly voluntary. Caius is a peaceful man who
    dislikes quarreling; but he likes to drink too much occasionally,
    although he knows that he always quarrels when he is under the
    influence of liquor. Thus, his quarrels are indirectly voluntary.

    36. An act is voluntary in its cause in two ways: (a) approvingly
    (physically and morally voluntary in cause), when one is able and
    obliged not to perform the act that is its cause (e.g., the quarrels of
    Caius mentioned above are approved implicitly by him, since he could
    and should prevent the intoxication which is their cause); (b)
    permissively (physically voluntary in cause), when one is not able or
    not obliged to omit the act that is its cause (see 94 sqq.). Examples:
    Balbus, in order to make a living, has to associate with persons of
    quarrelsome character, and as a result often hears shocking disputes.
    Titus, a military commander, orders an enemy fortification to be
    bombarded, although he knows that this will involve the destruction of
    other property and the unavoidable killing of some non-combatants or
    neutrals. Caius writes a book whose purpose and natural result is
    edification, but he foresees that evil-minded persons will
    misunderstand it and take scandal.

    37. Omissions, as well as acts, may be voluntary. (a) Thus, they are
    directly voluntary, when they are willed as an end or as a means to an
    end. Example: Titus fails to reprove the disorders of those in his
    charge because he likes disorder, or because it illustrates his theory
    that everyone should go through  an evolution from roughness to
    refinement. (b) They are indirectly voluntary, when their cause is
    willed with approval or permitted with disapproval. Example: Balbus
    does not like to miss Mass, but he fails to rise from bed when he hears
    the church bell ringing, and as a result does not get to church. If his
    failure to get up was due to laziness, the omission of Mass was
    approved by Balbus; if it was due to illness, the omission was only
    permitted.

    38. The effect that follows upon an omission may also be voluntary. (a)
    Thus, it is directly voluntary, if the omission is chosen as a means to
    the effect. Example: Caius hears Titus say that he is going to make a
    certain business deal, and he knows that Titus will suffer a great loss
    thereby; but he wishes Titus to lose his money, and therefore says
    nothing about the danger. (b) It is indirectly voluntary, if one
    foresees the effect, and approves or permits it. Examples: Balbus sees
    Titus attacked by a hoodlum and realizes that, unless assisted, Titus
    will be badly beaten up; but he is such an admirer of pugilism that, in
    spite of his sorrow for Titus, he decides not to stop the fight. Caius
    sees his friend Sempronius drowning, and fails to go to his assistance,
    because to his regret he is not an expert swimmer.

    39. The effect of an omission is indirectly voluntary and approved by
    the will when one is able and bound to do what one omits. Example:
    Balbus receives some confidential docuмents with the understanding that
    he will guard them sacredly; but fearing to lose the good graces of
    Titus, who is curious and loquacious, he omits to put the papers away
    as promised, with the result that Titus finds them and reads them.

    40. Obstacles to Consent.--The obstacles to consent are all those
    factors that take away or lessen the voluntariness of an act. (a) Thus,
    the actual obstacles that affect the intellect are reduced to
    ignorance, spoken of above; those that affect the will are passion and
    fear, and that which affects the external powers is coercion. (b) The
    habitual obstacles are habits and abnormal mental states.

    41. Fear is a disturbance of mind caused by the thought that a future
    danger is impending. It is an obstacle to consent in various ways: (a)
    it lessens or takes away freedom of judgment, inasmuch as it hinders or
    suspends the reasoning processes; (b) it lessens the voluntariness of
    choice, inasmuch as it makes one decide for what is not of itself
    agreeable.

    42. An act done under fear that impeded the use of judgment is: (a)
    involuntary, if the fear was so great that one was temporarily out of
    one's mind. Example: Titus is so panic-stricken at the thought that a
    wild animal is pursuing him that he fires a revolver in every
    direction; (b) less voluntary, if the fear prevents one from thinking
    with calmness and deliberation. Example: Caius is being questioned by a
    stern examiner who demands an immediate reply. Fearing to hesitate,
    Caius gives what he knows is a "bluffing" answer.

    43. The acts of one who is under fear are of various kinds.

    (a) Acts are done with fear, when the fear is concomitant--i.e., when
    it is not willed and does not cause the act, but is merely its occasion
    or would rather prevent it. Examples: Julius is ordered under pain of
    death to drink a glass of wine, a thing he was intending to do and
    which he would have done even without any threats. Balbus walks along a
    lonely road, because he must get home, but he trembles at the thought
    of robbers. Caius, a highwayman, at the point of the revolver, forces
    Balbus to hand over his purse, but he fears that the police may arrive
    before he has secured the money. Titus, a business man, makes a trip by
    air, because he must reach another city without delay, but he has some
    apprehensions about his safety. All these men act, not because of, but
    apart from or in spite of their fears.

    (b) Acts are done through fear, when fear causes an act that would not
    otherwise be performed. The fear may be antecedent (i.e., unwilled) or
    consequent (i.e., willed). Examples: Balbus, in the case mentioned
    above, surrendered his purse because of involuntary fear which was
    caused by the revolver of the robber. Claudius makes an act of sorrow
    for sin because of voluntary fear which he produces by thinking of the
    punishment of hell.

    44. The effects of fear, which do not take away the use of reason, on
    the voluntariness of acts are as follows.

    (a) Acts done with fear are not made really involuntary on account of
    the fear that accompanies them, for they are done for their own sake,
    not out of fear or as a consequence of fear. They may be called
    relatively involuntary in the sense that, by reason of fear, they are
    comparatively unpleasant, unless one enjoys the thrill of danger.
    Examples: Balbus, Caius and Titus, in the cases mentioned above, acted
    with perfect willingness. Whether they enjoyed their experiences or
    not, depends on their attitudes towards adventure and excitement.

    (b) Acts done through fear are voluntary simply and absolutely, for the
    act done under the impulse of fear is what the agent considers here and
    now as most desirable. Examples: Balbus' surrender of his purse and
    Claudius' act of contrition are just what these two men wish to do as
    best suited to the circuмstances.

    (c) Acts done through fear are involuntary in a certain respect, if the
    agent can retain his inclination towards the opposite of the act and
    still avoid what he fears; otherwise, they are in no way involuntary.
    Examples: Balbus retains his liking for the money taken from him by
    force, and hence the surrender of it to the highwayman, although
    voluntary, if all things are considered, is not voluntary, if only the
    money itself is considered. Claudius, on the contrary, retains no
    liking for his sins, for he knows that, if he does, he will defeat the
    purpose of his act of sorrow, which is to escape the pains of hell;
    hence, his contrition, although the result of fear, is in no respect
    involuntary.

    45. Passion is a movement of the sensitive appetite towards its object
    through love, desire, hope, or its repose therein through delight. It
    tends towards good, as fear tends away from evil (see 117 sqq.).
    Passion is an obstacle to consent in the following ways: (a) it takes
    away voluntariness (i.e., the quality of proceeding from an internal
    principle with knowledge of the end of the act), whenever it is so
    intense as to prevent knowledge; (b) it diminishes liberty (i.e., the
    quality of being perfectly voluntary, or indifferent as between many
    acts), even when it does not prevent knowledge.

    46. Spiritual appetites fortify the reason, but the opposite is true of
    sensible appetites; for these latter draw all the attention to things
    that are lower and away from those that are higher, and impede the
    exercise of imagination and other senses that serve the reason. In
    extreme and rare cases passion may be so intense as to distract from or
    prevent altogether the exercise of reason, or to produce insanity.
    Thus, we sometimes hear of persons losing their minds through affection
    for money, or of performing irrational deeds under the excitement of
    joy.

    47. With reference to the will, passion is twofold. (a) It is
    antecedent, when it precedes the act of the will and causes it. In this
    case the passion arises not from the will, but from some other cause
    (e.g., the bodily state, as when a sick man longs for food that is
    forbidden). (b) Passion is consequent when it follows the act of the
    will and results from it. This may happen either without the will
    choosing the passion (as when the very vehemence with which the will
    desires some object causes a corresponding sensitive emotion to
    awaken), or because the will has deliberately aroused the emotion in
    order to be able the better to act through its cooperation.

    48. Antecedent passion makes an act more voluntary, since it makes the
    will tend with greater inclination to its object; but it likewise makes
    an act less free, since it impedes deliberation and disturbs the power
    of choice. Example: A man who takes extreme delight in sports, plays
    voluntarily, but is less free than if he were not so immoderately
    inclined that way.

    49. Consequent passion which results naturally from an intense act of
    the will does not increase the voluntariness of the act, since it is
    not its cause; but it does show that the act of the will is intense,
    for it is only that which is willed vehemently that overflows from the
    will and affects the emotions.

    50. Consequent passion which results from the deliberate choice of the
    will increases the voluntariness of the act that follows, since the act
    is performed with greater intensity on account of the passion that has
    been deliberately excited.

    51. What has been said about the passions that tend to sensible good
    can be applied also to the passions that are concerned with sensible
    evils, such as hatred, sadness, aversion, boldness, anger. If they are
    antecedent, they increase the voluntariness of an act, but diminish its
    freedom; and, if they cause a passing frenzy or insanity, they take
    away all responsibility. If they are consequent, they either increase
    the willingness of the act, or indicate that it is willed with great
    intensity.

    52. Violence, or coercion, is the use of force by an external agent to
    compel one to do what one does not want to do. Its effects on
    voluntariness are: (a) it cannot affect the internal act of the will,
    else we should have the contradiction that the act of the will was both
    voluntary, as proceeding from the will, and involuntary, as proceeding
    from external coercion; (b) it can affect external acts, such as
    walking, and so make them involuntary. If a boy is driven to school,
    the violence makes his going involuntary, but it does not make his will
    not to go to school involuntary.

    53. Habits.--Characteristic of habits is a constant inclination,
    resulting from repeated acts, to perform similar acts (see 133 for
    definition of habit). Its effect(s) on the voluntariness of acts are:

    (a) if the habit is in a sense involuntary, i.e., caused by free acts
    but retracted by a sincere act of contrition, it diminishes or even
    takes away voluntariness. If the actual advertence to the act is
    imperfect, the voluntariety is diminished; if advertence is totally
    absent, all voluntariety is taken away. Thus a drunkard who retracts
    his habit and makes an act of true contrition may again fall into sin
    because of the acquired dispositions to drink. Then the sins are less
    voluntary or at times, owing to total lack of advertence, may be
    regarded solely as material sins.

    (b) if the habit is voluntary, i.e., acquired by free acts and not
    retracted, it increases the voluntariness in respect to the inclination
    to act. Should all advertence and deliberation be taken away, a rare
    occurrence, it diminishes the liberty of the act and consequently its
    morality as good or bad. Voluntariety, however, is not taken away
    entirely, since the habit itself was freely willed and hence acts
    flowing from it are voluntary in cause (see 35.). If sufficient
    advertence remains, the habit diminishes the freedom of the act owing
    to the impeding of reason; but this diminution of liberty is in accord
    with the will of the individual who freely contracted and conserves the
    habit to have facility in acting. Accordingly, absolutely speaking, a
    voluntary habit increases the voluntariety of acts caused by that habit
    and consequently increases their goodness or evil. Thus St. Thomas
    asserts that one who sins from habit sins from certain malice, i.e.,
    not from ignorance or passion, but from the will's own choice.

    54. Natural propensities are inclinations that arise from bodily
    constitution or physical condition (e.g., a strong native attraction to
    temperance or to intemperance not acquired by frequent acts). Natural
    propensities have the same kind of influence on the willingness of an
    act as involuntary habits (see 53.).

    55. Pathological states are diseases of the brain or nerves that react
    upon the intellect and the will, such as various kinds of neuroses and
    psychoses, hysteria and epilepsy. The influence of pathological states
    on the voluntariness of acts seems similar in kind to that ascribed to
    antecedent passion (see 48.). Caution must be observed in applying
    these principles to particular kinds of mental diseases.[1]

    [1] In doubt whether an act associated with a pathological state is
    free or not, the rule of moralists is lenient. When the act is sinful,
    it is not imputed as gravely sinful, for man is innocent until proven
    guilty. If the act is good, it is presumed voluntary and free and,
    consequently, meritorious. See Prummer, D.M., O.P., _Manuale Theologiae
    Moralis_ (Barcelona: Herder, 1946), I. n.93.

    56. Two Kinds of Voluntary Acts.--Having discussed human or voluntary
    acts in general, we shall now indicate in particular the acts that are
    of this kind. There are two classes of voluntary acts: (a) those
    elicited by the will; (b) those commanded by the will.

    57. Acts Elicited by the Will.--The first class of acts under the
    control of the will are those that are performed by the will
    itself--i.e., that are begun and completed in that power of the soul.

    58. There are three acts of the will that are directed to the end the
    will has in view, viz., wish, intention and fruition. Wish is the love
    or inclination of the will towards the end without any reference to the
    means by which it is to be obtained: this is the first act of the will.
    Intention is the direction of the will to the gaining of the end
    through certain means. Fruition is the enjoyment of the end after it
    has been gained: this is the last act of the will.

    59. There are three acts of the will that are directed to the means and
    that follow after intention, viz., consent, election, and use. Consent
    follows upon the counsel of the intellect, and is an act of the will
    agreeing to several means as suitable for the intended end. Election
    follows after a practical judgment of the intellect about the means
    consented to, and is an act of the will which chooses one of the means
    in preference to the others, as being most suitable for gaining the
    intended end. Use is the act by which the will directs and moves the
    other powers to employ the particular means that has been chosen.

    60. Acts Commanded by the Will.--The second class of acts that are
    under the control of the will are those that proceed, not from the will
    itself, but from the other powers under the direction of the will.

    61. Acts commanded by the will are of various kinds: (a) intellectual
    acts, such as judgment, reasoning, etc., performed under the direction
    of the will, (b) sensible acts such as sight, hearing, imagination, the
    passions of love, hate, etc.; (c) external corporal acts, such as
    walking, writing, etc. None of the foregoing acts need be commanded by
    the will, as they may be indeliberate (see 23).

    62. The following kinds of acts are not subject to the control of the
    will: (a) intellectual acts, such as the assent of the reason to
    self-evident truths, as regards the specification of the act; (b)
    sensible acts, such as the passions considered as arising from bodily
    dispositions before they are adverted to; (c) acts of the vegetative
    life, such as digestion and growth; (d) bodily movements, such as the
    circulation of the blood and the beating of the heart.
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: WAS SIRI POPE UNTIL HE DIED?
    « Reply #121 on: December 12, 2019, 05:53:38 AM »
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  • Someone form another forum was kind enough to share this with me:

    Quote from: McHugh-Callan Moral Theology

    Sure, but I already said this, that the act would have been free from a moral standpoint, but not from a canonical standpoint; those are two different things.  His having caved to the pressure does not mean he was not pressured to resign.  Viewed from the moral perspective, then, there would be no such thing as a resignation under duress as described by Canon Law.


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: WAS SIRI POPE UNTIL HE DIED?
    « Reply #122 on: December 12, 2019, 10:03:39 PM »
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  • i would like to remind the Forum that there is a cabal present here that basically follows the theory of Mrs Martinez in her Undermining Of The Catholic Church. You know who you are.  This says that Pope Pius XII is a collaborator w/ communist, marrano joos as well as being complicit in the v2 anti-church.

    This is a mucho bigger scam than is being done to Trump by the Demrats now. :sleep:

    Roscoe,

    What ethnic background was Pope Pius XII?

    Was his family into banking?

    Did he go to seminary?  If so, which one?

    :popcorn:

    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline moneil

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    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: WAS SIRI POPE UNTIL HE DIED?
    « Reply #124 on: December 13, 2019, 05:44:07 AM »
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  • Response from Priest #11:

     

    Because the True Catholic Church is an external organization your proposed question is not possible.  Why?  I say because the graces given to anyone elected a true pope, would give them the courage to expose the truth and die for the Faith.  Quasi elected cowards need not apply!
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: WAS SIRI POPE UNTIL HE DIED?
    « Reply #125 on: December 13, 2019, 07:55:26 AM »
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  • Response from Priest #11:

     

    Because the True Catholic Church is an external organization your proposed question is not possible.  Why?  I say because the graces given to anyone elected a true pope, would give them the courage to expose the truth and die for the Faith.  Quasi elected cowards need not apply!

    Meh.  We've had Popes who flirted with heresy (to the point of being posthumously excommunicated), have had cowards, perverts, compromisers, etc.  Sure, they receive graces of state, but there's nothing that forces them to make use of them.  These CMRI priests of yours aren't exactly top-tier theologians, are they?

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: WAS SIRI POPE UNTIL HE DIED?
    « Reply #126 on: December 13, 2019, 10:48:28 AM »
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  • They are not all CMRI and I believe Father Benedict Hughes is legit, not a top tier theologian (they are hard to find these days) but he knows his stuff and I would surmise he has all the bloggers here beat.  Of course your observation about the latest comment is correct. 

    If you were elected and accepted and were told if you announce yourself as Pope the Vatican will be blown up or even if a large part of the population (I guess including those doing the blowing up) what would you surmise you would do?  Would not the choice be easy?  Easy in the sense that there is a clear cut choice of good or evil presented before him and he chose the evil rather than the good. 

    Again if we suppose he was elected, and accepted, and threatened to such a degree.  Each speculation and combined somewhat doubtful I would think. 

    I'll answer for myself, though when push comes to shove we do not know what we will do for sure I think until it actually happens.  I think, I would respond "do your worst" and go out on the balcony immediately.  And spill the beans on all they were trying to do.  I would like to think that would be the case if it happened.  I would pray they were bluffing or God would prevent it.  But by doing my part I would be leaving it in God's hands which isn't a bad place to start. ;)
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline roscoe

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    Re: WAS SIRI POPE UNTIL HE DIED?
    « Reply #127 on: December 13, 2019, 11:28:51 AM »
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  • Roscoe,

    What ethnic background was Pope Pius XII?

    Was his family into banking?

    Did he go to seminary?  If so, which one?

    :popcorn:
    Pius XII was Italian
    If you have some evidence that Pacelli's relatives were involved in some sort of illegal activity, pls post it. If not, there is nothing wrong w/ being a banker to the Pope.
    You will have to consult one of the Bio's of the Pope to determine where the Pope was educated. :popcorn:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    Re: WAS SIRI POPE UNTIL HE DIED?
    « Reply #128 on: December 15, 2019, 08:26:10 PM »
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  • Listen to the 1:17  part 4: The vitiated Conclave of 1958 enabling act for the eclipse of the Church, Gary Giuffre


    OK to save

    Good to 2/1/2020.

    https://isoc.ws/


    Offline verilyCatholic

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    Re: WAS SIRI POPE UNTIL HE DIED?
    « Reply #129 on: March 09, 2020, 02:43:13 PM »
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  • I believe it's likely that Siri was not a true pope. He was apparently elected, but if he was a Mason, which I think is likely, he was an ineligible. It is pretty believable that he was threatened with death and that he backed down and resigned, though I think he had nothing to resign.  If he had been a true pope, his subsequent submission to the Modernists would have rendered him automatically deposed for apostasy. Assuming, again,  that he was a valid pope, it would be asked, "Why did this good Catholic cardinal not stand and fight to the death?" The only likely possibility is that he was not really a Catholic, but was secretly a Mason. Every Mason knows that he is in Mortal sin and will be sent to Hell at death. If he is an advanced Mason, he doesn't even believe in Hell and sees death as extinction. Hence, better to live on your Masonic knees than to die on your feet "for nothing". I agree with those who think that if Siri had been a  true pope he would have welcomed martyrdom at the hands of Brother John (Roncalli) and his Brethren (or tolerated the murders of his relatives).  

    Offline verilyCatholic

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    Re: WAS SIRI POPE UNTIL HE DIED?
    « Reply #130 on: March 09, 2020, 02:52:48 PM »
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  • To Roscoe: Pope Pius XII may have been a Marrano Jєω whose family had great power in Rome due to their gold, but good luck proving it. What is more to the point is was he orthodox? He may have been in Bnai Brith, but good luck proving it.  What is more to the point is did he violate the Catholic Faith? 


    Offline Aristotl

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    Re: WAS SIRI POPE UNTIL HE DIED?
    « Reply #131 on: June 01, 2020, 09:18:04 PM »
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  • How dare you to attack a Valid Pope His Holiness Pope PiusXII. No one can judge a Holy Father except Christ Himself. Where is the truth to what you accuse Him of other than you think. Once the Church has spoken there is no discussion.  Just because you think something is true doesn't mean it. Even John XXIII said " think of what Pius would do I will do the opposite.

    Offline Struthio

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    Re: WAS SIRI POPE UNTIL HE DIED?
    « Reply #132 on: June 01, 2020, 09:54:42 PM »
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  • How dare you to attack a Valid Pope His Holiness Pope PiusXII. No one can judge a Holy Father except Christ Himself. Where is the truth to what you accuse Him of other than you think. Once the Church has spoken there is no discussion.  Just because you think something is true doesn't mean it. Even John XXIII said " think of what Pius would do I will do the opposite.

    LOL! Hilarious! How silly!

    How dare you make yourself the esoteric master determining which Popes are valid and which are not?

    Why not speak to other forum members like you're just another forum member? Who are you?
    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)

    Offline Aristotl

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    Re: WAS SIRI POPE UNTIL HE DIED?
    « Reply #133 on: June 01, 2020, 10:54:43 PM »
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  • I'm just another forum member who has studied a lot and went through a valid seminary and the rest is history. Believe it or not, I actually met PaulVI once but that is another time another place. I can tell you this during my time at the seminary they hated Pope Pius XII and anyone that defended him was treated worse than dog manure.

    Offline roscoe

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    Re: WAS SIRI POPE UNTIL HE DIED?
    « Reply #134 on: June 02, 2020, 12:53:19 AM »
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  • Somehow i missed this topic.. :sleep:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'