Author Topic: Video: NO Priest: Athiests Can Be Saved (Read 7173 times)

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #1 on:** September 20, 2011, 10:36:48 PM »

Baloney.

NO priests don't receive the graces they need from the Novus Ordo.

Santo Subito · « **Reply #2 on:** September 20, 2011, 11:29:46 PM »

He said it is possible for athiests OF GOOD WILL to be saved. This means based on what they know, they sincerely believe atheism. Moral theology teaches one must know something is a sin in order to commit a sin. If someone is sincerely convinced in an honest manner that atheism is true then that person will not go to Hell ON THAT ACCOUNT, though they might go for other reasons.

LordPhan · « **Reply #3 on:** September 21, 2011, 12:36:19 AM »

Quote from: Santo Subito

He said it is possible for athiests OF GOOD WILL to be saved. This means based on what they know, they sincerely believe atheism. Moral theology teaches one must know something is a sin in order to commit a sin. If someone is sincerely convinced in an honest manner that atheism is true then that person will not go to Hell ON THAT ACCOUNT, though they might go for other reasons.

That is not the teaching of invincible ignorence at all. In order for one to be invicilby ignorent one must not have any possiblity of knowing the truth. If I tell you you're going to hell for killing someone and you don't believe it, no matter how much you choose to not believe it dosn't make you invincibly ignorent.

This is how the Novus Ordo twist legitamate Dogma and make it into a heresy.

If someone from the America's had never heard of the True Church THEN he is invicibly ignorent and not guilty on that one account. That is what was always taught, this twist of if you don't believe something that you should is a contrary to what has and always was taught and is thus heresy.

Gregory I · « **Reply #4 on:** September 21, 2011, 02:01:34 AM »

LP, got the Magisterial References that distinguish Authentic and Ordinary magisterium yet? Which docuмents?

LordPhan · « **Reply #5 on:** September 21, 2011, 02:19:14 AM »

Quote from: Gregory I

LP, got the Magisterial References that distinguish Authentic and Ordinary magisterium yet? Which docuмents?

You had to pester me in a random thread that has no bearing on this? Or are you mad that I am tearing into a Novus Ordo defender? Maybe you and he can go ecuмanise with each other. You are just as bad as they are and that is why you get along so well with them. Just remember if you think they are not Catholic, and they like you, then you yourself are not Catholic. For all Catholics are hated by those outside the Church.

Gregory I · « **Reply #6 on:** September 21, 2011, 02:39:29 AM »

Someone has to hold you accountable for shooting out information without any magisterial reference.

Zenith · « **Reply #7 on:** September 21, 2011, 06:13:50 AM »

:heretic: :heretic: :heretic: :heretic: :heretic: :heretic: :heretic: :heretic:

Someone pass the petrol please!

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #8 on:** September 21, 2011, 09:13:15 AM »

Quote from: Santo Subito

He said it is possible for athiests OF GOOD WILL to be saved. This means based on what they know, they sincerely believe atheism. Moral theology teaches one must know something is a sin in order to commit a sin. If someone is sincerely convinced in an honest manner that atheism is true then that person will not go to Hell ON THAT ACCOUNT, though they might go for other reasons.

I think your post in not in line with what Christ says. Christ says that if a man does not acknowledge Him, then He cannot acknowledge that person to His Father.

Atheists CHOOSE not to believe in God, and therefore they are in mortal sin for denying His Existance.

Santo Subito · « **Reply #9 on:** September 21, 2011, 09:37:29 AM »

Lord Phan,

Someone can be exposed to smatterings of arguments about Catholicism, the existance of God, etc. If their refusal to accept comes from a sincere and legitimate conscience which cannot understand the true teaching then it is without guilt. They may have sincerely believed certain untruths about the Church or think erroneous things about the Church in good conscience that they were told by people they trust. This is totally different from knowing in your heart there is a God and the Catholic Church is true and then rejecting it.

Santo Subito · « **Reply #10 on:** September 21, 2011, 09:39:08 AM »

Quote from: SpiritusSanctus

Atheists CHOOSE not to believe in God, and therefore they are in mortal sin for denying His Existance.

It's not that simple. If I'm hunting and I think I'm shooting a deer, but shoot a man instead, I'm not culpable for any sin. This is true even though I CHOSE to shoot the gun. Doesn't matter. I made a choice based on what I sincerely believed to be true.

LordPhan · « **Reply #11 on:** September 21, 2011, 09:51:20 AM »

Heresy, outside the church there is no salvation I now Cite the INFALLIBLE Council of Florence.

Quote

Sixthly, we offer to the envoys that compendious rule of the faith composed by most blessed Athanasius, which is as follows:

Whoever wills to be saved, before all things it is necessary that he holds the catholic faith. Unless a person keeps this faith whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish eternally. The catholic faith is this, that we worship one God in the Trinity, and the Trinity in unity, neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the holy Spirit. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son and of the holy Spirit is one, the glory equal, and the majesty co-eternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the holy Spirit. The Father uncreated the Son uncreated and the holy Spirit uncreated. The Father infinite, the Son infinite and the holy Spirit infinite. The Father eternal, the Son eternal and the holy Spirit eternal. Yet they are not three eternals, but one eternal. As also they are not three uncreateds nor three infinites, but one uncreated and one infinite. Likewise the Father is almighty, the Son is almighty and the holy Spirit is almighty. Yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty. Likewise the Father is God, the Son is God and the holy Spirit is God. Yet they are not three gods, but one God. Likewise the Father is Lord, the Son is Lord and the holy Spirit is Lord. Yet they are not three lords, but one Lord. For just as we are compelled by the Christian truth to acknowledge each person by himself to be God and Lord, so we are forbidden by the catholic religion to say there are three gods or three lords. The Father is made by none, neither created nor begotten. The Son is from the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten. The holy Spirit is from the Father and the Son; not made nor created nor begotten, but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three fathers; one Son, not three sons; one holy Spirit, not three holy spirits. And in this Trinity nothing is before or after, nothing is greater or less; but the whole three persons are co-eternal together and co-equal. So that in all things, as has been said above, the unity in Trinity and the Trinity in unity is to be worshipped. Whoever, therefore, wishes to be saved, let him think thus of the Trinity.

It is also necessary for salvation to believe faithfully the incarnation of our lord Jesus Christ. The right faith, therefore, is that we believe and confess that our lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, is God and man. God, of the substance of the Father, begotten before the ages; and man, of the substance of his mother, born in the world. Perfect God, perfect man, subsisting of a rational soul and human flesh. Equal to the Father according to his Godhead, less than the Father according to his humanity. Although he is God and man, he is not two, but one Christ. One, however, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by the taking of humanity into God. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person. For as a reasoning soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ. He suffered for our salvation and descended into hell. On the third day he rose from the dead. He ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of God the Father almighty. Thence he shall come to judge the living and the dead. At his coming all shall rise again with their bodies, and shall give an account of their own deeds. Those who have done good shall go into eternal life, but those who have done evil shall go into eternal fire.

This is the catholic faith. Unless a person believes it faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #12 on:** September 21, 2011, 09:51:31 AM »

Using your logic Santo, nearly all non-Catholics go to Heaven because they're practicing what THEY believe to be true. But it does not work that way, it isn't about what you think is true. Either you accept God and His Church or you aren't saved, simple as that. The only way an atheist could be saved is if he either repented or never even heard of God and has no one to teach Him of God (like the people in countries such as Africa, although I'm not sure they would be called atheists per se). There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church.

Santo Subito · « **Reply #13 on:** September 21, 2011, 09:57:30 AM »

Lord Phan,

That dogma must be understood with the mind of the Church which has always realized exceptions.

Santo Subito · « **Reply #14 on:** September 21, 2011, 09:58:47 AM »

Quote from: SpiritusSanctus

Using your logic Santo, nearly all non-Catholics go to Heaven because they're practicing what THEY believe to be true. But it does not work that way, it isn't about what you think is true. Either you accept God and His Church or you aren't saved, simple as that. The only way an atheist could be saved is if he either repented or never even heard of God and has no one to teach Him of God (like the people in countries such as Africa, although I'm not sure they would be called atheists per se). There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church.

So someone raised Protestant who was fed lies about the Church all his life by people he trusted automatically goes to Hell just because the circuмstances of his life never allowed for him to know the Truth?