Author Topic: Video: Fr. Wathen The Doctrine of Exclusive Salvation in Scriptures (Read 5982 times)

Stubborn · « **Reply #5 on:** February 13, 2019, 08:29:56 AM »

Quote from: donkath on February 13, 2019, 07:22:26 AM

Thank you Stubborn. Can you point me to the specific teaching where he said that? I need to answer his critic.

I heard him say something along those lines in a sermon but can't remember which sermon or I would post it for you - and will post it if I come across it anytime soon.

Also, in Fr. Wathen's book, "Who Shall Ascend?" he directly references Fr. Feeney in the affirmative a number of times.

From his book, I could post a ton of quotes on a BOD, but here is one snip from the book:

"There is no "doctrine" of "baptism of desire." Nowhere in all the magisterial pronouncements of the Church is it suggested that Catholics are required to believe in this alternate form of Baptism. Brother Francis is correct in saying that it is only a "theory," a theory which has been elevated to the rank of "a dogmatic fact" by Liberals and sentimentalists. The one good thing we may hope to come from this controversy is that some day the Church may tell us whether there really is such a thing as "baptism of desire," and how its reality can be reconciled with the Dogma of Faith, something we maintain is impossible. No one has done this yet."

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #6 on:** February 13, 2019, 09:12:21 AM »

Quote from: donkath on February 11, 2019, 07:34:30 PM

Someone told me that Fr Wathen was a Feneeite? I think this must be wrong. Can someone enlighten me please? Or point me to links that refute this accusation? Thank you.

That would be like saying that Joe Montana, YA Title, and Johnny Unitas, are all Bradyites just because they were all championship winning football quarterbacks

Or calling St. Francis Xavier a Feeneyite for rejecting baptism of desire.

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1552xavier4.html
From: Henry James Coleridge, ed., The Life and Letters of St. Francis Xavier, 2d Ed., 2 Vols., (London: Burns & Oates, 1890), Vol. II, pp. 331-350; reprinted in William H. McNeil and Mitsuko Iriye, eds., Modern Asia and Africa, Readings in World History Vol. 9, (New York: Oxford University Press, 1971), pp. 20-30.
St. Francis Xavier:
Letter from Japan, to the Society of Jesus in Europe, 1552

One of the things that most of all pains and torments these Japanese is, that we teach them that the prison of hell is irrevocably shut, so that there is no egress therefrom. For they grieve over the fate of their departed children, of their parents and relatives, and they often show their grief by their tears. So they ask us if there is any hope, any way to free them by prayer from that eternal misery, and I am obliged to answer that there is absolutely none. Their grief at this affects and torments them wonderfully; they almost pine away with sorrow. But there is this good thing about their trouble---it makes one hope that they will all be the more laborious for their own salvation, lest they like their forefathers, should be condemned to everlasting punishment. They often ask if God cannot take their fathers out of hell, and why their punishment must never have an end. We gave them a satisfactory answer, but they did not cease to grieve over the misfortune of their relatives; and I can hardly restrain my tears sometimes at seeing men so dear to my heart suffer such intense pain about a thing which is already done with and can never be undone.

donkath · « **Reply #7 on:** February 13, 2019, 10:43:20 AM »

Quote from: Stubborn on February 13, 2019, 08:29:56 AM

I heard him say something along those lines in a sermon but can't remember which sermon or I would post it for you - and will post it if I come across it anytime soon.

Also, in Fr. Wathen's book, "Who Shall Ascend?" he directly references Fr. Feeney in the affirmative a number of times.

From his book, I could post a ton of quotes on a BOD, but here is one snip from the book:

"There is no "doctrine" of "baptism of desire." Nowhere in all the magisterial pronouncements of the Church is it suggested that Catholics are required to believe in this alternate form of Baptism. Brother Francis is correct in saying that it is only a "theory," a theory which has been elevated to the rank of "a dogmatic fact" by Liberals and sentimentalists. The one good thing we may hope to come from this controversy is that some day the Church may tell us whether there really is such a thing as "baptism of desire," and how its reality can be reconciled with the Dogma of Faith, something we maintain is impossible. No one has done this yet."

This is great thank you.

donkath · « **Reply #8 on:** February 13, 2019, 10:44:15 AM »

Quote from: Last Tradhican on February 13, 2019, 09:12:21 AM

That would be like saying that Joe Montana, YA Title, and Johnny Unitas, are all Bradyites just because they were all championship winning football quarterbacks

Or calling St. Francis Xavier a Feeneyite for rejecting baptism of desire.

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1552xavier4.html
From: Henry James Coleridge, ed., The Life and Letters of St. Francis Xavier, 2d Ed., 2 Vols., (London: Burns & Oates, 1890), Vol. II, pp. 331-350; reprinted in William H. McNeil and Mitsuko Iriye, eds., Modern Asia and Africa, Readings in World History Vol. 9, (New York: Oxford University Press, 1971), pp. 20-30.
St. Francis Xavier:
Letter from Japan, to the Society of Jesus in Europe, 1552

One of the things that most of all pains and torments these Japanese is, that we teach them that the prison of hell is irrevocably shut, so that there is no egress therefrom. For they grieve over the fate of their departed children, of their parents and relatives, and they often show their grief by their tears. So they ask us if there is any hope, any way to free them by prayer from that eternal misery, and I am obliged to answer that there is absolutely none. Their grief at this affects and torments them wonderfully; they almost pine away with sorrow. But there is this good thing about their trouble---it makes one hope that they will all be the more laborious for their own salvation, lest they like their forefathers, should be condemned to everlasting punishment. They often ask if God cannot take their fathers out of hell, and why their punishment must never have an end. We gave them a satisfactory answer, but they did not cease to grieve over the misfortune of their relatives; and I can hardly restrain my tears sometimes at seeing men so dear to my heart suffer such intense pain about a thing which is already done with and can never be undone.

Excellent! Much obliged.

Judith 15 Ten · « **Reply #9 on:** February 13, 2019, 03:11:38 PM »

The Divine Liturgy predates the Holy Bible.

Catholic Church for the win.

CathInfo.com

Author Topic: Video: Fr. Wathen The Doctrine of Exclusive Salvation in Scriptures (Read 5982 times)

Stubborn

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Last Tradhican

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donkath

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donkath

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Judith 15 Ten

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