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Author Topic: Vatican II Ecclesiology and CMRI, SSPX, SSPV, etc.  (Read 7411 times)

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Offline trad123

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Re: Vatican II Ecclesiology and CMRI, SSPX, SSPV, etc.
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2019, 01:51:53 AM »
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But quite recently, we shudder to say it, men have appeared who have thrown such reproaches upon our name and apostolic dignity, that they do not hesitate to slander us, as if we shared in their folly and favored the aforesaid most wicked system. (. . .) as to suppose that not only the sons of the Church, but that the rest also, however alienated from Catholic unity they may remain, are alike in the way of salvation, and may arrive at everlasting life." We are at a loss from horror to find words to express our detestation of this new and atrocious injustice that is done us.

http://www.traditionalmass.org/articles/article.php?id=68


The New Ecclesiology: An Overview Most Rev. Donald J. Sanborn

(. . .)

II. The Traditional Ecclesiology


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Those who are validly baptized in non-Catholic sects are presumed by Church law to participate in and assent to the sins of heresy and/or schism of their respective sects. Privately, however, they may be not guilty of these sins, owing to invincible ignorance of the true Faith, in which case they may belong to the Catholic Church by desire, provided they fulfill other conditions.


Offline trad123

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Re: Vatican II Ecclesiology and CMRI, SSPX, SSPV, etc.
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2019, 02:03:04 AM »
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But quite recently, we shudder to say it, men have appeared who have thrown such reproaches upon our name and apostolic dignity, that they do not hesitate to slander us, as if we shared in their folly and favored the aforesaid most wicked system. (. . .) as to suppose that not only the sons of the Church, but that the rest also, however alienated from Catholic unity they may remain, are alike in the way of salvation, and may arrive at everlasting life." We are at a loss from horror to find words to express our detestation of this new and atrocious injustice that is done us.



The New Ecclesiology: Docuмentation, by Most Rev. Donald J. Sanborn

www.traditionalmass.org/images/articles/ecclesiology.pdf



Commentary, Page 7:


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Therefore those who adhere to the Vatican II ecclesiology are straying from divine truth.


Commentary, Page 18:


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Heretical and schismatics sects are not a means of salvation, and  those who adhere to them have no hope of heaven, unless they are excused from fault because of invincible ignorance.


Offline trad123

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Re: Vatican II Ecclesiology and CMRI, SSPX, SSPV, etc.
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2019, 02:09:35 AM »
Rev. Curzio Nitoglia

An analysis of three principal errors of Vatican II: Personalism, a false notion of the Church, and collegiality

http://www.traditionalmass.org/articles/article.php?id=32&catname=10


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Therefore if some member of a non-catholic sect sanctifies himself, he owes that to the grace of God which blows where it will and touches him despite the false principles of a sect in which he finds himself through invincible ignorance.


Offline trad123

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Re: Vatican II Ecclesiology and CMRI, SSPX, SSPV, etc.
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2019, 02:30:26 AM »
http://www.thetradforum.com//index.php?topic=406.msg5590#msg5590


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I never understood the questioning of implicit desire when there are a number of pre-Vatican II Catholic catechisms that specifically teach it.

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Agreed, but to the Feenyite, this is simply pre-Vatican II modernism.


As if Vatican II happened in a vacuum. It had it's roots.

That goes for implicit desire, denial of the Athanasius creed, an aberration of the visible unity of the Church wherein non-members are supposedly united to the Church, yet publicly profess an alien faith.

Re: Vatican II Ecclesiology and CMRI, SSPX, SSPV, etc.
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2019, 03:03:18 AM »
From the Baltimore Catechism;

Q. 510. Is it ever possible for one to be saved who does not know the Catholic Church to be the true Church?
A. It is possible for one to be saved who does not know the Catholic Church to be the true Church, provided that person:
1.(1) Has been validly baptized;
2.(2) Firmly believes the religion he professes and practices to be the true religion, and
3.(3) Dies without the guilt of mortal sin on his soul.

Q. 511. Why do we say it is only possible for a person to be saved who does not know the CatholicChurch to be the true Church?
A. We say it is only possible for a person to be saved who does not know the Catholic Church to be the true Church, because the necessary conditions are not often found, especially that of dying in a state of grace without making use of the Sacrament of Penance.

Q. 512. How are such persons said to belong to the Church?
A. Such persons are said to belong to the "soul of the church"; that is, they are really members of the Church without knowing it. Those who share in its Sacraments and worship are said to belong to the body or visible part of the Church.

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resources/catechism/baltimore-catechism/lesson-11-on-the-church