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Author Topic: Vatican II Ecclesiology and CMRI, SSPX, SSPV, etc.  (Read 7408 times)

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Offline Last Tradhican

Re: Vatican II Ecclesiology and CMRI, SSPX, SSPV, etc.
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2019, 03:43:45 AM »
Quote from: poche on August 10, 2019, 03:03:18 AM
From the Baltimore Catechism;

Q. 510. Is it ever possible for one to be saved who does not know the Catholic Church to be the true Church?
A. It is possible for one to be saved who does not know the Catholic Church to be the true Church, provided that person:
1.(1) Has been validly baptized;
2.(2) Firmly believes the religion he professes and practices to be the true religion, and
3.(3) Dies without the guilt of mortal sin on his soul.

Q. 511. Why do we say it is only possible for a person to be saved who does not know the CatholicChurch to be the true Church?
A. We say it is only possible for a person to be saved who does not know the Catholic Church to be the true Church, because the necessary conditions are not often found, especially that of dying in a state of grace without making use of the Sacrament of Penance.

Q. 512. How are such persons said to belong to the Church?
A. Such persons are said to belong to the "soul of the church"; that is, they are really members of the Church without knowing it. Those who share in its Sacraments and worship are said to belong to the body or visible part of the Church.

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resources/catechism/baltimore-catechism/lesson-11-on-the-church

If people who believe in so-called "baptism of desire", restricted their belief to the above quotes from an older Baltimore Catechism, all these threads on EENS would not exist on CI. 

Unfortunately 99% of believers in so-called baptism of desire, believe that any non-baptized person can be saved, that Mohamedans, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, non-Catholics in every false religion, can be saved by their belief in a God that rewards. This thread is not about those non-Catholics who are validly baptized,   what this thread is about, that even traditionalist groups teach in their seminaries and to the faithful that non-Catholics in every false religion can be saved without being validly baptized, without desiring to be baptized, without desiring to be Catholics, without belief in Jesus Christ or the Holy Trinity, indeed, even despising all that is Catholic. 
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Offline Last Tradhican

Re: Vatican II Ecclesiology and CMRI, SSPX, SSPV, etc.
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2019, 04:12:06 AM »
Very good Trad123, it is all there in one place for all to see for themselves. As I said before:


Quote
The SSPX teaches it because they are flawed, it is their Achilles heal and a sign for those seeking truth to NOT follow them blindly or with absolute trust. It is the sign that they will eventually rationalize ANYTHING, including joining Rome (like the SSPX is attempting), or declaring themselves pope. This is why I do not follow them with certainty of faith, I just take what good they (trad groups) have to offer . You have the Vatican II sect and you have the trad groups that teach the same thing regarding EENS, that Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Buddhists, indeed people in any "religion" can be saved by their belief in a God that rewards.
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Offline poche

Re: Vatican II Ecclesiology and CMRI, SSPX, SSPV, etc.
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2019, 05:29:08 AM »
What about cases of invincible ignorance?
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Offline Struthio

Re: Vatican II Ecclesiology and CMRI, SSPX, SSPV, etc.
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2019, 06:39:27 AM »
Quote from: poche on August 10, 2019, 05:29:08 AM
What about cases of invincible ignorance?

Invincible ignorance until death means that God chose to not introduce the candidate to the gospel, to not lead the candidate to the Church and the sacraments. It means that God chose to not reward the candidate with salvation.
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Offline trad123

  • Supporter
Re: Vatican II Ecclesiology and CMRI, SSPX, SSPV, etc.
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2019, 10:20:20 AM »
When someone brings up Pius IX and makes the bold claim he inferred the salvation of non-Catholics, at that point, that person has committed slander against Pius IX.
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