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Author Topic: Vatican I on the object of supernatural faith  (Read 11116 times)

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Vatican I on the object of supernatural faith
« Reply #55 on: April 10, 2014, 05:05:36 AM »
I don't know if this has been addressed yet.  But just because the existence of God can be known through reason alone does not mean that His existence cannot be believed through a supernatural faith based upon divine revelation.

Next objection please.

Vatican I on the object of supernatural faith
« Reply #56 on: April 10, 2014, 05:09:35 AM »
Quote from: Ladislaus
Quote from: Lover of Truth
You make a strong case for the majority view but the Church has not condemned the minority view.


OK, there are two separate issues here, as Nishant earlier distinguished.

1) Which view you consider to be the correct one?
2) Whether or not the other view should be condemned / rejected.

You answered the second question, obviously.

Which view do YOU believe / adhere to / follow?


My view is I don't know because the Church hasn't settled it.  That is the God's honest truth.


Vatican I on the object of supernatural faith
« Reply #57 on: April 10, 2014, 05:13:56 AM »
Quote from: Cantarella
Quote from: Lover of Truth


If he is not bad willed and he is following the natural law to the best of his ability, has supernatural faith and perfect charity and is in a state of sanctifying grace he has an implicit desire to do all that is necessary such as formerly join the Church which means being subject to the Roman Pontiff.  That is why it is called Baptism of "Desire".

 


I am not talking about "Baptism of "Desire". I do not believe in BOD under any circuмstances, not even for catechumens. I was asking if it is remotely possible for an already baptized Christian, Protestant or Orthodox, to have a last minute Perfect Act of Contrition and thus be saved? why yes? or why not?

Where this idea of last minute Perfect Act of Contrition is found originally?  This would mean that the Sacrament of Penance is optional for some.


When you speak of the sacrament of Confession being "optional" you miss the fact that it may not be an option for the person on his deathbed with no available Priest.  You are very mistaken when you accuse the Church of teaching that Sacramental Confession is optional because a perfect act of Contrition can suffice when sacramental Confession is optional.  It is not like the Church teaches you do either when sacramental Confession is obtainable.  Do you understand.

You have not been brainwashed on this issue as you have by the traditional modernists on BOD/B so there might be hope you get this issue right.  

There is a correlation BTW.  The desire for the sacrament of baptism and penance, when legitimate and when the one cannot or does not obtain the sacrament through no fault of his own can suffice.  This is the difference between Heaven and Hell and the just and merciful Judge looks to the heart and judges accordingly, He is not trapped by His sacramental system and He does not need water to cleanse a soul from Original Sin.  He punishes those culpable of sin not those who are not culpable.  

Stay away from the Feeneyite heretics who twist Church teaching to their own destruction.  

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Vatican I on the object of supernatural faith
« Reply #58 on: April 10, 2014, 06:01:43 AM »
Quote from: Lover of Truth
I don't know if this has been addressed yet.  But just because the existence of God can be known through reason alone does not mean that His existence cannot be believed through a supernatural faith based upon divine revelation.

Next objection please.


Come on, LoT.  That's PRECISELY the point addressed by the quote from Vatican I.  It states that supernatural faith must necessarily (by definition) have a supernatural OBJECT.

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Vatican I on the object of supernatural faith
« Reply #59 on: April 10, 2014, 06:03:35 AM »
Quote from: Lover of Truth
My view is I don't know because the Church hasn't settled it.  That is the God's honest truth.


Do you believe that pagans can be saved?  If so, you must necessarily hold the minority view.

If you're saying that this minority view is possible, then you admit that St. Thomas could have been wrong on this.