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Author Topic: The weirdness of anti-Feeneyism  (Read 17220 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: The weirdness of anti-Feeneyism
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2023, 11:06:33 AM »
...except that Feeney was excommunicated under a traditional one, while Lefebvre/Williamson/et al were excommunicated by modernist ones.

Utterly absurd.  You claim both are legitimate Popes.  So both have the authority to excommunicate.

Re: The weirdness of anti-Feeneyism
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2023, 11:07:43 AM »
Utterly absurd.  You claim both are legitimate Popes.  So both have the authority to excommunicate.

...except that you brought up unjust excommunications....allegedly under a traditional pope.


Offline Ladislaus

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Re: The weirdness of anti-Feeneyism
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2023, 11:10:33 AM »
If by BOD you mean that catechumens who believe in the Trinity, the incarnation and all the Catholic Faith may be saved if they die without having received water baptism, that has not been condemned as heresy. I am inclined to think that it is an error but there is a reason why such great minds as St. Thomas', St. Robert Bellarmine's and St. Alphonsus' thought about it. And there is also a reason why many other great saints and doctors rejected it.

If by BOD you mean that protestants, muslims, jews, "righteous pagans" who never heard the Name of Jesus Christ, may be somehow joined to His Mystical Body and be saved, that's definitely heresy.

I wouldn't even classify the above statement of BoD as "error", not in the sense of the theological note, but more that they were mistaken or wrong.

But, yes, I agree, when BoD gets extended into a mechanism to get heretics, schismatics, and infidels into the Church, the heresy there consists of the denial of EENS dogma.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: The weirdness of anti-Feeneyism
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2023, 11:14:33 AM »
...except that you brought up unjust excommunications....allegedly under a traditional pope.

And this "Traditional Pope" also approved and promulgated the 1955 Holy Week Rites that you claim are tainted with Modernism.  Pius XII, while a legitimate Pope, was no St. Pius X and not staunchly anti-Modernist either.  He actually set into motion all the factors that would eventually bring us Vatican II.  Nevertheless, that is also irrelevant.  According to you, both Pius XII and Wojtyla had the authority to excommunicate.  Had Wojtyla excommunicated Hans Kung for heresy, you'd hold it as valid, despite the fact that Wojtyla was a Modernist.  Question was whether the excommunication ITSELF was just or unjust ... in both cases.  There's no difference.  I hold that Father Feeney's excommunication was unjust, the same way that I would hold the Wojtylan excommunication of +Lefebvre et al. to have been unjust even if I believed that Wojtyla had been the Pope.

Re: The weirdness of anti-Feeneyism
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2023, 11:19:42 AM »
And this "Traditional Pope" also approved and promulgated the 1955 Holy Week Rites that you claim are tainted with Modernism.  Pius XII, while a legitimate Pope, was no St. Pius X and not staunchly anti-Modernist either.  He actually set into motion all the factors that would eventually bring us Vatican II.  Nevertheless, that is also irrelevant.  According to you, both Pius XII and Wojtyla had the authority to excommunicate.  Had Wojtyla excommunicated Hans Kung for heresy, you'd hold it as valid, despite the fact that Wojtyla was a Modernist.  Question was whether the excommunication ITSELF was just or unjust ... in both cases.  There's no difference.  I hold that Father Feeney's excommunication was unjust, the same way that I would hold the Wojtylan excommunication of +Lefebvre et al. to have been unjust even if I believed that Wojtyla had been the Pope.

You can't escape the trap:

If you want to promote Feeney, you have to attack a true pope (which, per your own sede position, is verboten).

R&R has the good sense to recognize their authority, but reject their harmful decisions.

Sounds to me like you're implicitly conceding the R&R position in your defense of Feeney (or you couldn't dismiss the excommunication).

:popcorn: