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Author Topic: The weirdness of anti-Feeneyism  (Read 17219 times)

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Offline songbird

Re: The weirdness of anti-Feeneyism
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2023, 06:04:41 PM »
The best book to reads EENS by Father Muller.  I have read books about Fr. Feeney.  What I read, stated that Fr. Feeney had a lawyer.  When Fr. Feeney was asked by the Holy See to come, the lawyer said, in writing does it state what reason you are to go to Rome.  Answer, no, no reason was given.  Lawyer said to Fr. Feeney, they should state, if not than you decide but Rome is to state in Writing the reason. Fr. Feeney stayed home.  Excommunication for disobediance? So, IMO after reading of Fr. Feeney's background, and his actions, IMO he was defending the Church! Defending her Dogmas and Doctrines.

What struck me was how the Church Magestrium comes to defining Dogmas and Doctrines.  This was answered in the book on archives, "The True Story of the Council, by Cardinal Manning.  Wow! Here is the last infallible Council and for Infallibility.  Now we have always had infallibility and defined, BUT, cardinal Manning explains how in the last 300 years (1560-1860) dogmas and doctrines were having a misunderstanding by the people, definitions that went wrong with suggestions and misinterpretations.  So, he and many bishops and pope Leo XIII saw it very necessary to call this Council.  When it was, definitions of infallibility were not changed, but made clearer. And Cardinal Manning states that defining goes so far as what magisterium believes is needed, for the time. Really?! So, this book is very important to read.  I myself didn't expect what I was going to read.  I thought all definitions were in place, but there is more to know and more to realize.  
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Offline Durango77

Re: The weirdness of anti-Feeneyism
« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2023, 07:42:24 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on July 09, 2023, 08:04:48 AM
Father Feeney didn't "seek" anything.  It were various members of the hierarchy who were sympathetic to his plight who sent a representative to "reconcile" Father Feeney, and they only required of him that he recite the Athanasian Creed to consider him a Catholic, and of course Father Feeney willingly professed his belief in the Creed.


More loopholes and legalese to defend this priest and his position.  
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Offline Durango77

Re: The weirdness of anti-Feeneyism
« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2023, 07:53:31 PM »
Quote from: poenitens on July 09, 2023, 09:08:29 AM
If by BOD you mean that catechumens who believe in the Trinity, the incarnation and all the Catholic Faith may be saved if they die without having received water baptism, that has not been condemned as heresy. I am inclined to think that it is an error but there is a reason why such great minds as St. Thomas', St. Robert Bellarmine's and St. Alphonsus' thought about it. And there is also a reason why many other great saints and doctors rejected it.

If by BOD you mean that protestants, muslims, Jєωs, "righteous pagans" who never heard the Name of Jesus Christ, may be somehow joined to His Mystical Body and be saved, that's definitely heresy.

"Towards the end of the same Encyclical, he affectionately invites those who do not belong to the body of the Catholic Church to enter into her unity, and he mentions those who "by a certain desire and unconscious longing have a certain relationship with the Mystical Body of the Redeemer". He does not in any way exclude them from eternal salvation, but he goes on to affirm that they are in a state "in which they cannot be sure of their eternal salvation" and that "they still remain deprived of those many heavenly gifts and helps which can only be enjoyed in the Catholic Church".

With these words, the Pope condemns those who exclude from eternal salvation men who are united to the Church only through implicit desire as well as those who wrongly affirm that all men can be saved equally in all religions (cf. Pope Pius IX, Singulari quadam, Denz. 1641 and sq.; Pius XI, Quanto conficiamur moerore, Denz. 1677)."


That's a quote from the Holy Office to Fr Feeney.  It's much longer in it's entirety.  But implicit desire, invincible ignorance, these are tough concepts for some people and they are definitely not a black and white concepts.  Again my main point in responding here is to for the Feeney people, is stop calling everyone heretics, because BoD and BoB are legitimate, they are based on Church teachings and tradition.
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Offline poenitens

Re: The weirdness of anti-Feeneyism
« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2023, 10:05:43 PM »
Quote from: Durango77 on July 09, 2023, 07:53:31 PM
(cf. Pope Pius IX, Singulari quadam, Denz. 1641 and sq.; Pius XI, Quanto conficiamur moerore, Denz. 1677).
These objections are thoroughly addressed here:



In short what Pope Pius IX is saying is that a non-catholic who earnestly seeks God may be saved but only because God in His mercy will make sure that before the end of his life he hears and believes the Gospel and gets baptized with water. 

A non-catholic who dies without water-baptism or without professing the Catholic faith will certainly NOT be saved:

Quote
[The Sacrosanct Roman Church][color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87)] firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart “into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels” [Matt. 25:41], unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church. - Cantate Domino, Pope Eugene IV[/color]

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Online AnthonyPadua

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Re: The weirdness of anti-Feeneyism
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2023, 03:45:14 AM »
Quote from: poenitens on July 09, 2023, 08:44:30 AM
I was always curious about this.

I think that it is impossible that Father Feeney did not see a problem with the post-conciliar church, the hierarchy and the new sacraments. He was a man with such a great catholic sense that when the US started fluoridizing water, he was concerned that it would invalidate the matter of baptism (I read that somewhere at The Point). From this, we can speculate that he would have had very grave concerns with the new mass, the new rites of holy orders and by extension with the hierarchy that promulgated them. Is there any account on what he thought about the council?

So I don't think that he was completely at ease with reconciling with the post-conciliar Church.
So do chemically treated water/recycled water invalidate baptism?
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