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Author Topic: The three errors of the Feeneyites  (Read 7353 times)

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Offline Lover of Truth

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Re: The three errors of the Feeneyites
« Reply #45 on: August 30, 2017, 01:02:24 PM »
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    • Quote from: Last Tradhican on August 30, 2017, 01:00:05 PM
    People with eyes to see will perfectly understand what I am asking. Observe how the poster avoids the issue. It is very clear what I am saying.
    You are a liar you won't provide a quote from me that condemns what the Fathers teach in regards to EENS and BOD.  The feeneyites may want it to be obvious and pretend it is obvious but no legitimate proof will be forthcoming because you are a liar.  
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: The three errors of the Feeneyites
    « Reply #46 on: August 30, 2017, 01:10:37 PM »
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    • Quote from: Last Tradhican on August 30, 2017, 01:00:05 PM
    People with eyes to see will perfectly understand what I am asking. Observe how the poster avoids the issue. It is very clear what I am saying.
    Now he acts as if he doesn't know what you're talking about. :facepalm:
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: The three errors of the Feeneyites
    « Reply #47 on: August 30, 2017, 01:14:02 PM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on August 30, 2017, 01:10:37 PM
    Now he acts as if he doesn't know what you're talking about. :facepalm:
    Perhaps you can tell me what he is saying.  I'm not afraid to state what I believe as should be obvious I do not care about people disliking me over the truth.  I enjoy it.  
    Where do I condemn what the Fathers teach on BOD?  Share a quote please.  Again you seem to make me a prophet. You claim it is obvious and bring no proof.  Incredible but to be expected.  
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Re: The three errors of the Feeneyites
    « Reply #48 on: August 30, 2017, 01:18:37 PM »
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    • I always had a hard time reading what Last Tradhican had to say, because his font was the default, recommended, universally standardized size.

    Now that he's enlarged it, though, I am captivated and very quickly coming to see the truth of his position!

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    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: The three errors of the Feeneyites
    « Reply #49 on: August 30, 2017, 01:21:42 PM »
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    • Quote from: Mithrandylan on August 30, 2017, 01:18:37 PM
    I always had a hard time reading what Last Tradhican had to say, because his font was the default, recommended, universally standardized size.

    Now that he's enlarged it, though, I am captivated and very quickly coming to see the truth of his position!
    What is the truth of his position?  Is it that the Church has not condemned the Fathers yet but some day will?  I want to admit to his accusation or recant it or show it is unfounded. 
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: The three errors of the Feeneyites
    « Reply #50 on: August 30, 2017, 01:28:17 PM »
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    • Protestant ministers who fear they are teaching error tend to shout louder to compensate.  Perhaps that's the gist of it.  He has me scarred.  I thought condemning the teaching of the Fathers would be something I would remember being I often post their teaching with no comment at all.  
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: The three errors of the Feeneyites
    « Reply #51 on: August 30, 2017, 01:28:53 PM »
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    • Quote from: tornpage on August 30, 2017, 01:27:47 PM
    Ladislaus,
    There it is, in this thread, Reply #9.
    Yes.  There it is.  Thank you.
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Re: The three errors of the Feeneyites
    « Reply #52 on: August 30, 2017, 01:31:28 PM »
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    • Quote from: Lover of Truth on August 30, 2017, 01:21:42 PM
    What is the truth of his position?  Is it that the Church has not condemned the Fathers yet but some day will?  I want to admit to his accusation or recant it or show it is unfounded.
    I was being sarcastic.  You should tone it back on all the excessive formatting, too :)
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    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: The three errors of the Feeneyites
    « Reply #53 on: August 30, 2017, 01:32:08 PM »
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    • Quote from: tornpage on August 30, 2017, 01:30:21 PM
    To be fair to Lover of Truth, he's quoting Laisney.
    Another instance of the need to be careful regarding these texts of the "opinions" of theologians, doctors, etc.
    Thanks for being fair.  That is a refreshing change.  Is their anything you asked me that I have not responded to.  You do not seem to be mean-spirited as the rest of the feeneyites.
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: The three errors of the Feeneyites
    « Reply #54 on: August 30, 2017, 01:34:10 PM »
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    • Quote from: Mithrandylan on August 30, 2017, 01:31:28 PM
    I was being sarcastic.  You should tone it back on all the excessive formatting, too :)
    Sometimes it comes out that way when I copy and paste.  But I have been trying to make a conscious effort to put the number down to 2.  Thanks for the advice.  I'm open to any.  So have you seen me teach error? 

    The more controversial the topic the more I rely on the authoritative sources and the less I rely on myself.  All my articles on the issue are 90% Fenton for this reason.  
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: The three errors of the Feeneyites
    « Reply #55 on: August 30, 2017, 02:18:13 PM »
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    • Quote from: tornpage on August 30, 2017, 01:27:47 PM
    Ladislaus,
    There it is, in this thread, Reply #9.

    Clearly an error on his part (if this is an accurate translation).  Even if one wanted to argue that BoD is a hypothetical possibility, there's absolutely no proof (much less is it de fide) that anyone has ever been saved in that manner.
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    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: The three errors of the Feeneyites
    « Reply #56 on: August 30, 2017, 02:24:13 PM »
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    In other words, salvation, which is at the end of the Christian life on earth, only requires perseverance in the state of grace received at justification, which is at the beginning of the Christian life on earth. Baptism is the sacrament of justification, the sacrament of the beginning of the Christian life. If one has received sanctifying grace, which is the reality of the sacrament - res sacramenti - of baptism, he only needs to persevere in that grace to be saved. Perseverance in grace requires obedience to the Commandments of God, including the commandment to receive the sacrament of baptism. Thus there remains for him the obligation to receive baptism of water. But, this is no longer absolutely necessary (by necessity of means), since he has already received by grace the ultimate fruit of that means. It still remains necessary in virtue of our Lord’s precept to be baptized by water. When and if circuмstances independent of our will prevent us from fulfilling such a precept, the principle taught by St. Cyprian, St. Ambrose, St. Augustine, and others is to be applied: "God takes the will as the fact."[9] This means that God accepts the intention to receive the sacrament of baptism as equivalent to the actual reception of the sacrament.
    The sacrament of Baptism is also necessary with a relative necessity of means though not an intrinsic necessity i.e. salvation is impossible apart from sacramental baptism or its replacements.  
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline JPaul

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    Re: The three errors of the Feeneyites
    « Reply #57 on: August 30, 2017, 02:26:12 PM »
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    • Quote from: Lover of Truth on August 30, 2017, 12:46:47 PM
    Share a quote from me that condemns the teachings of the Fathers.
    He just gave you teaching by an undeniably authoritative Christian source. Do you deny it?
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    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: The three errors of the Feeneyites
    « Reply #58 on: August 30, 2017, 02:28:50 PM »
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    • Quote from: JPaul on August 30, 2017, 02:26:12 PM
    He just gave you teaching by an undeniably authoritative Christian source. Do you deny it?
    I'm missing something.  I'm looking for where I condemned what the Fathers taught on BOD as he has claimed.  Where have I done this.  What source purportedly condemns something out of my mouth that an authoritative source has not taught.  
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: The three errors of the Feeneyites
    « Reply #59 on: August 30, 2017, 03:14:25 PM »
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    • Quote from: Lover of Truth on August 30, 2017, 02:28:50 PM
    What source purportedly condemns something out of my mouth that an authoritative source has not taught.  

    No authoritative source has taught Pelagianism.
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