Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: The Root of Lover of Truth's Illness  (Read 13664 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: The Root of Lover of Truth's Illness
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2017, 10:22:47 AM »
Quote
Any non-Catholic can be saved if he dies in a state of sanctifying grace.
And let's not forget the fantasic way that a non-catholic OBTAINS sanctifying grace - He belives that any non-catholic can "will" his way to a perfect act of love, supernatural faith and therefore, justification.  It sounds an awful lot like the protestant idea of 'confessing one's sins to God' or maybe he's talking about a jedi mind trick??

Re: The Root of Lover of Truth's Illness
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2017, 10:40:43 AM »
Sounds like Lover of Tautology is practicing magic inna mirror again.
In short, the poster does not truly believe that God can provide for the conversion and baptism of a non-Catholic, and so from there he goes into theological speculation to get around every single word in the dogmatic declarations on EENS, the sacraments, and justification. The mental gymnastics is so overwhelming that at the end he does not know what he believes and ends up with the idea that; Any non-Catholic can be saved if he dies in a state of sanctifying grace.

Well, that is like saying anyone that goes to heaven is saved. It says  nothing. Yet he thinks he's "cracked the code".

He says he is being submissive to the teachings of the Church, that the Church has not definitively decided on the issue of the damnation of those who do not believe in the Holy Trinity and the Incarnation, on the other hand, he rejects the teachings of the Church that one must be a sacramentally baptized Catholic in a state of grace to be saved. That is a teaching of the Church too, and yet he vehemently rejects it and hates the teaching with a passion. Interesting.

No theologian in at least the first 1500 years of the Church ever taught that Pagans, Jews, Mohamedans, Hindus etc... can be saved by their belief in a God that rewards, and after that time period it was not till the late 1800 that some obscure theologians started pushing the speculation to the point where it was the majority opinion of the theologians at Vatican II.

We reject that teaching which was enshrined at Vatican II (indeed, the docuмent constantly brought forward by the poster, the 1949 letter, is referenced in Vatican II). We know that it is a teaching of the Church but it is speculative teaching, strictly tolerated at this point in time. We have the right to reject it.

On the other side, the poster rejects the constant teaching of the Church that to be saved one must be a sacramentally baptized member of the Catholic Church in a state of grace at death. We have for years been bringing forward all the Fathers, Doctors, Saints, theologians, that is teach the same as us. It is also Church teaching, and has a longer tradition than the recent streak of salvation by belief in a rewarder God. Not one such "strict interpreter" of EENS has ever been declared a heretic, indeed, they are all Saints. Yet the poster hates the teaching so much that he dedicates all his time to counter it.


Re: The Root of Lover of Truth's Illness
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2017, 10:54:40 AM »

Quote
Furthermore, no one is excluded from the everlasting possession of the Beatific Vision except for reasons of sin. In the case of an infant who has died without receiving the sacrament of baptism, that sin is not personal, but is original sin, the aversion from God which is consequent upon the offense committed by Adam himself. Obviously, according to the teaching of the Catholic Church, an infant who dies in that state will not be punished by the all-just and all-merciful God for some sin which he did not personally commit. But, for such an infant, the Beatific Vision is a good to which the infant is not entitled and which he will not receive. Fenton


Online Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: The Root of Lover of Truth's Illness
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2017, 11:10:23 AM »
Oh, right, St Fenton is infallible.  I forgot.

Re: The Root of Lover of Truth's Illness
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2017, 11:20:26 AM »

Quote
The people who do not come into salvific contact with Our Lord do not avail themselves of the salvation which is in Him alone. As a result they are not saved, and they remain in the condition in which they have come into the world, or in the condition in which they have placed themselves through their own personal and mortal sins. If they die in this condition, they inevitably receive the effects which follow upon their condition. They are excluded from the Beatific Vision and, if they pass from this life guilty of mortal sin for which they have not been repentant, they suffer the pain of hell forever. Fenton