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Author Topic: The predestined will not end their life without the sacrament of the Mediator  (Read 5662 times)

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If you read the authorities cited in the  thread, and could actually say that, you need to do something other than discuss things outside your ken on forums like this, and so avoid making a fool of yourself. Or worse.

You're subtly attempting to lead people to Calvinist heresy. The Catholic explanation is different from what you have stated in your own words so far. You have yet to give a synopsis of the difference between the Catholic view of being written in the Book of Life and the heresy of predestination.

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Maybe this trad hasn't quite realized that in rejecting predestination entirely the user accepts a Vatican II idea of salvation, since this is uniquely tied to "many" in the True Mass.
Wrong. I reject Vatican II.

What merit is there for the predestined when being predestined guarantees a person salvation? That means there can't be any true free will for that person. To say "the predestined have free will" is illogical. Just admit that your belief is a contradiction. Your poor explanation is a contradiction. You're saying that God is the Author of confusion, when in reality, it is Satan who is the author of confusion. The fact is you don't even really know WTH you believe. All you can do is parrot something you read and post links, but you have no real understanding of it. How can you, when what you espouse makes no sense?


What merit is there for the predestined when being predestined guarantees a person salvation? That means there can't be any true free will for that person. To say "the predestined have free will" is illogical. Just admit that your belief is a contradiction. Your poor explanation is a contradiction. You're saying that God is the Author of confusion, when in reality, it is Satan who is the author of confusion. The fact is you don't even really know WTH you believe. All you can do is parrot something you read and post links, but you have no real understanding of it. How can you, when what you espouse makes no sense?
It is a mystery, like the Holy Trinity, that cannot be understood.

You must give assent to the Catholic dogmas of free will and predestination in order to be a Catholic.  You do not have to understand them.

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Salvation depends on free will to avoid being in mortal sin upon death. A person must freely choose to be in the state of grace upon their death. Christ gives us a choice to choose Him or reject Him, and our eternal reward or punishment depends on this free will. 

... and the Catholic doctrine of predestination affirms what you write above.  Your assertion that it contradicts the above means you failed to understand it.  Granted, it's not easy to understand, and not possible to completely understand, since it's a mystery.  There are two major approaches to predestination held by Catholics, and the Church refused to step in and pick a side ... one of the few times that the Church has failed to do so.  But I think that you should have a bit of humility and just admit you don't understand it rather than chanting "Heresy".

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12378a.htm

Alas, this article does in fact contain real heresy, the heresy of modern times, and the root cause of Vatican II:

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From this it follows that we must reckon among them also all children who die in baptismal grace, as well as those adults who, after a life stained with sin, are converted on their death-beds. The same is true of the numerous predestined who, though outside the pale of the true Church of Christ, yet depart from this life in the state of grace as catechumens, Protestants in good faith, schismatics, Jєωs, Mahommedans, and pagans. Those fortunate Catholics who at the close of a long life are still clothed in their baptismal innocence, or who after many relapses into mortal sin persevere till the end, are not indeed predestined more firmly, but are more signally favoured than the last-named categories of persons.

:facepalm: ... it just doesn't end.  So Catholics are just "more signally favoured" that all these others who are predestined, including Jews, Mahommedans, and pagans.  This is basically the teaching of Vatican II decades earlier.