I apologize for my prior response. I'm sorry and shouldn't have responded that way.
No, I did not and do not deny that Christ opened heaven for us, and for the OT saints - I said as much in that thread - and even for St. Dismas, who wouldn't be there if not for Christ.
St. Dismas's spirit/soul entering heaven that day upon his demise, before Our Lord returned there in His resurrected body, in accordance with the will of God (and per Christ's promise) does not deny the truth of Christ's opening the door to heaven for all men.
To remain a Feeneyite anti-BoDer, you have to blur lines, reject distinctions, and interpret language and phrases with the intent on proving a point rather than attempting to understand what they mean, particularly in relation to other truths and facts which on the surface, and only on the basis of a superficial and quick reading (that looks to interpret things congenially with one's point of view), seem to indicate a contradiction - like the necessity of the sacrament of baptism and BoD.
If a sincere effort is made to understand, and with more reflection, the contradiction will often disappear.
There's a wonderful few verses near the end of the Gospel of John that says volumes about how we are to read closely and with the precision that the Word of God requires - rather than leaping to assumptions that may (and likely aren't) warranted.
I like the emphasis on the false reading and interpretation by the "brethren" of what Jesus said that is highlighted by the Confraternity translation of verse 23:
St. Dismas in spirit could go to heaven "this day," the day he died, and before Christ's physical ascension, and before the OT saints and the rest of us without making false the teaching that Jesus opening the gate of Heaven for all men.
Exceptions, especially those carved out by God, don't cancel out general rules and truths. The One who gives the rules and truths their general application to begin with can do that.
Apology accepted.
I am sorry for being inflammatory as well.
So I was reading your response and I was confused how in the world you are reconciling the fact that Christ opened Heaven with His resurrection for every single child of Adam with the notion that St. Dismas entered Heaven before the Resurrection.
But then I got to your last paragraph: Exceptions, especially those carved out by God, don't cancel out general rules and truths.
You freely admit you don't believe that logic applies to theology.
Let's look at the quote again:
The Catechism of the Council of Trent: "...before His death and Resurrection Heaven was closed against every child of Adam."
"All x's (children of Adam) satisfy property P (Heaven is closed for them until the Resurrection)": $\forall x P(x)$ ( VxP(x) )
What is its negation?
$\lnot \forall x P(x) \iff
\exists x \lnot P(x)$ .
( ~VxP(x) <=> 3x~P(x) )
Essentially you're saying that the dogma no one is saved outside the Church still holds true even if there is in fact one really good jew who was saved outside the Church.
This is how the Pharisees made void all the commandments of God.
Paraphrasing you: To remain a Cushingite John 3:5 mocker you have to reject the fundamental rules of logic and twist yourself into a pretzel to hold two contradictory beliefs, making counterexamples into exceptions.
To be a Catholic you just have to apply general principles to specific situations, not void principles from hypotethical scenarios as the modernists do.
Topic: The Necessity of the Sacraments (Read 59590 times)