These things are clearly taught in that dogmatic letter which was issued by the Sovereign Pontiff, Pope Pius XII, on June 29, 1943, "On the Mystical body of Jesus Christ." For in this letter the Sovereign Pontiff clearly distinguishes between those who are really (in re) incorporated into the Church as members and those who are joined to it only in intention (in voto).

"For in this letter the Sovereign Pontiff clearly distinguishes between those who are really (in re) incorporated into the Church as members and those who are joined to it only in intention (in voto)."

And per SH, it distinguishes that prior to SH, Fr. Feeney was "really (in re) incorporated into the Church as [a] member", but after SH, Fr. Feeney was still a member, but now "joined to it only in intention (in voto)."

It makes the whole purpose of The Letter as being nothing but one giant slanderous attack on Fr. Feeney don't you agree?

Towards the end of the same encyclical letter, when most affectionately inviting to unity those who do not belong to the body of the Catholic Church (qui ad Ecclesiae Catholicae compagem non pertinent), he mentions those who are "ordered to the Redeemer's Mystical Body by a sort of unconscious desire and intention," and these he by no means excludes from eternal salvation, but, on the contrary, asserts that they are in a condition in which "they cannot be secure about their own eternal salvation," since "they still lack so many and such great heavenly helps to salvation that can be enjoyed only in the Catholic Church."

See, Fr. Feeney's desire and longing to be part of the Mystical Body was explicit and conscious. He actually had the heavenly helps to secure his eternal salvation before he died.

With these wise words he reproves both those who exclude from eternal salvation all those united to the Church only by implicit desire and those who falsely assert that men can be saved equally (aequaliter) in every religion.

 Nor must we think that any kind of intention of entering the Church is sufficient in order that one may be saved. It is requisite that the intention by which one is ordered to the Church should be informed by perfect charity; and no explicit intention can produce its effect unless the man have supernatural faith: "For he who comes to God must believe that God exists and is a rewarder of those who seek Him." The Council of Trent declares: "Faith is the beginning of man's salvation, the foundation and root of all justification, without which it is impossible to please God and attain to the fellowship of His children." [The original Latin text and the official English translation of the Suprema haec sacra appeared in AER, CXXVII, 4 (Oct., 1952), 307-15. The part of the translation quoted above is on pp. 312-14.]

1. The teaching that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church is a dogma of the Catholic faith.

2. This dogma has always been taught, and will always be taught, infallibly by the Church's magisterium.

3. The dogma must be understood and explained as the Church's magisterium understands and explains it.

4. The Church is necessary for salvation with both a necessity of precept and a necessity of means.

5. Because the Church is necessary for salvation with the necessity of precept, any person who knows the Church to have been divinely instituted by Our Lord and yet refuses to enter it or to remain within it cannot attain eternal salvation.

6. The Church is a general and necessary means for salvation, not by reason of any intrinsic necessity, but only by God's Own institution, that is, because God in His merciful wisdom has established it as such.

7. In order that a man may be saved "within" the Church, it is not always necessary that he belong to the Church in re, actually as a member, but it can sometimes be enough that he belong to it as one who desires or wills to be in it. In other words, it is possible for one who belongs to the Church only in desire or in voto to be saved.

8. It is possible for this desire of entering the Church to be effective, not only when it is explicit, but also (when the person is invincibly ignorant of the true Church) even when that desire or votum is merely implicit.

9. The Mystici Corporis reproved both the error of those who teach the impossibility of salvation for those who have only an implicit desire of entering the Church, and the false doctrine of those who claim that men may find salvation equally in every religion.

10. No desire to enter the Church can be effective for salvation unless it is enlightened by supernatural faith and animated or motivated by perfect charity.

I read the "brothers" Diamond book on the topic in its entirety and became convinced that they were correct. I did not realize that they took quotes out of context.

I also did not realize the extent that the Church teaches BOB/D infallibly in her ordinary magisterium.

Think of a different topic where one affirms one thing correctly but denies another thing incorrectly.

Those who hold the erroneous to heretical position on EEENS that the brother's do are akin to those who think the following:

Scripture is infallible. Scripture says Jesus had brothers. Mary is not ever-virgin.

You have to take the quotes the brother’s supply in context. Extra Ecclesia Nulla Salus is as an infallible Dogma thrice defined. On this we must agree. The proper understanding of this Dogma is vital in order to avoid confusion.

The Church is composed of the Militant, Suffering and Triumphant.

When someone who had planned on being baptized and was not needlessly putting it off dies before he can be baptized he has Baptism of Desire applied to him at the moment of death where he officially becomes a member of the Church (Suffering or Triumphant). This can also be the case for those who are truly invincibly ignorant which means not only do they not know that the Catholic Church is the One True Church but they also could not reasonably find this out. It is up to God to sort out the invincibly ignorant from those who are culpable for our ignorance, not us.

Those who die for Christ or for His sake or the sake of His Church have Baptism of Blood applied at the moment of death and are a part of the Church Triumphant at the moment of death.

The sincere who truly want to know the truth or who want to try to legitimately defend their erroneous to heretical understanding of EENS against the Popes, Doctors and other Saints who disagree with the Feeneyites and agree with the Church infallible ordinary magisterium on the issue will read the following in their entirety.

The willfully blind and intellectually dishonest people who hold to this error/heresy will not read it and may therefore be considered to be culpably ignorant at the moment of death and therefore outside the very Church they claimed you have to be in order to be saved:

Installment 97: Begin at the Beginning Part Thirteen of "The Art of Scholastic Dishonesty"

Installment 96: The Proof Part Three of a three-part treatise "Anatomy of a Papal Resignation"

Installment 95: The Precedents Part Two of a three-part treatise "Anatomy of a Papal Resignation"

Installment 94: The Procedure Part One of a three-part treatise "Anatomy of a Papal Resignation"

Installment 93: Thinking Inside the Church and Outside the Conciliar Box Amping up the discussion on how sedevacantism is the only conclusion in light of the facts presented

Installment 92: Dead or Alive, Anonymous Apostates Are Known to God Part Three of a three-part Interlude

Installment 91: The Slippery Slope to Sophistry Part Two of a three-part Interlude

Installment 90: Genesis of the Polemics Against Feeneyism Part One of a three-part Interlude

Installment 89: To Go Where No Saint Has Gone Before The Society's dangerous course

Installment 88: The Art of Scholastic Dishonesty, Part Twelve, part c Closing Arguments against the Thesis and Feeneyism

Installment 87: The Art of Scholastic Dishonesty, Part Twelve, part b The Catechism vs. the Thesis and Feeneyism

Installment 86: The Art of Scholastic Dishonesty, Part Twelve, part a The Church Theologians vs. the Thesis and Feeneyism

Installment 85: A Good Christmas Annual Nativity Message

Installment 84: The Art of Scholastic Dishonesty, Part Eleven, part b The Church vs. Feeneyism

Installment 83: The Art of Scholastic Dishonesty, Part Eleven, part a Conspiracy of a Cult

Installment 82: The Art of Scholastic Dishonesty, Part Ten, part b Desire to Know the Full Truth about Baptism of Desire

Installment 81: The Art of Scholastic Dishonesty, Part Ten, part a Fathers Know Best what desires God Desires

Installment 80: The Art of Scholastic Dishonesty, Part Nine Bobbing for BOB

Installment 79: The Art of Scholastic Dishonesty, Part Eight When all else fails, blame God!

Installment 78: The Art of Scholastic Dishonesty, Part Seven The Evidence is Overwhelming!

Installment 77: The Art of Scholastic Dishonesty, Part Six It's All Or Nothing!

Installment 76: The Art of Scholastic Dishonesty, Part Five What About the What-abouts?

Installment 75: The Art of Scholastic Dishonesty, Part Four The Treatise is in Contempt of Context

Installment 74: The Art of Scholastic Dishonesty, Part Three Three who dare challenge Church Teaching

Installment 73: The Art of Scholastic Dishonesty, Part Two Ellipses can Eclipse Ecclesial Intent

Installment 72: The Art of Scholastic Dishonesty, Part One Word Twisting to Change the Meaning

Quote from: Lover of Truth

Those who hold the erroneous to heretical position on EEENS that the brother's do are akin to those who think the following:

Scripture is infallible. Scripture says Jesus had brothers. Mary is not ever-virgin.

You cannot be serious.

He's become mentally deranged.  Also, LoH has made it clear that he has absolutely no competence to even discuss theological matters.  He doesn't have the slightest notion of scholatic theological methods, and can't see a missing distinction if it hit him in the face.  What's more, he's blinded by bad will.  He refuses to accept the dogma EENS, and so he froths at the mouth against it every chance he gets.

Lover of Heresy, you have made yourself absolutely obnoxious with your troll spamming.  If someone attempts to address/refute a point you've made, 90% of the time you respond with another spam post entirely unrelated to the point at hand.  When one or another point of yours has been refuted, you change the subject with a completely unrelated spam post.  If I wanted to play your game, I could simply start spamming in articles from catholicism.org or from the Dimond brothers, until we did nothing but alternate spam posts.  Your behavior is absolutely childish.

In addition, you suffer from severe psychological problems -- various neuroses and psychoses that result from the darkness in your soul due to heretical depravity.  You have the hubris of claiming that your understanding/interpretation of the Magisterium = the Magisterium itself and that rejecting your often-ridiculous arguments is tantamount to rejecting the Magisterium.

Finally, it is true that there is only one way to enter the Church Militant, and that is indeed by water baptism. A catechumen, though associated with the Church, though blessed by the Church, though he himself becomes a blessing to the Church, nevertheless remains outside the Church so long as he remains thus, whether innocently or guiltily. And that innocence or guilt is something that God alone sees in the heart of the individual. And seeing that innocence or guilt in the heart of a soul abruptly forced into eternity ahead of the due time for their baptism by water into the Church Militant, is it not for God to determine on a case by case basis whether that soul shall be damned if guilty (as in the case criticized by St. John Chrysostom), or else admitted directly into either the Church Suffering or the Church Triumphant if that soul be innocent in His sight, and that without their ever having been in the Church Militant?
   
So to sum up, there are six realities that must be borne in mind when reading the following quotes, so as to read them in the sense always and forever intended by the Church, and with the Mind of the Church, understanding them exactly as they were written, and not with the alien interpretation foisted upon them by the likes of Peter Dimond and Fr. Feeney:

1) Those passages referring to damnation of those outside the Church always carry a sense of "do not" and never "have not."

2) Those passages that make sweeping generalizations would naturally have to admit certain limited exceptions, as can be defended by other doctrines as applicable.

3) Those passages referring to saved souls can only be speaking of those who are in either Purgatory or Heaven, nowhere else.

4) Those passages referring to the Church as the only means of salvation mean that no other "church" can save, but do not limit the Church's methods for applying God's Grace to souls.

5) Those passages referring to the necessity to "abide" or "remain" or "continue" in the Church have no bearing on questions of BOB and BOD and entrance requirements since they speak only to those who are already in the Church Militant.

6) Those passages which speak of water baptism as being the only means of entering the Church are speaking of how to enter the Church Militant, the only one of the three levels of the Church which one can voluntarily join.

    So, taking into account the above listed six realities, one at last can read the following doctrinal and dogmatic magisterial statements in their true sense, that which the Church has always intended by them from the very beginning:

Note: Numbers in brackets in bold after each quote indicate which of the above six points apply to the quote.

"… the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ… Nor is there salvation in any other. For there is no other name, under Heaven, given to men, whereby we must be saved." (Acts 4:12) [4]

"If anyone abideth not in Me, he shall be cast forth as a branch, and shall wither, and they shall gather him up, and cast him into the fire, and he burneth" (St. John 15:6) [5]

Pope Gregory XVI, Mirari Vos (# 13), Aug. 15, 1832: "With the admonition of the apostle that 'there is one God, one faith, one baptism' (Eph. 4:5) may those fear who contrive the notion that the safe harbor of salvation is open to persons of any religion whatever. They should consider the testimony of Christ Himself that 'those who are not with Christ are against Him,' (Lk. 11:23) and that they disperse unhappily who do not gather with Him. Therefore, 'without a doubt, they will perish forever, unless they hold the Catholic faith whole and inviolate" (Athanasian Creed).[5]

Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, Constitution 1, 1215, ex cathedra: "There is indeed one universal Church of the faithful, outside of which nobody at all is saved, in which Jesus Christ is both priest and sacrifice." [3]

Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam, Nov. 18, 1302, ex cathedra: "With Faith urging us we are forced to believe and to hold the one, holy, Catholic Church and that, apostolic, and we firmly believe and simply confess this Church outside of which there is no salvation nor remission of sin…
Furthermore, we declare, say, define, and proclaim to every human creature that they by absolute necessity for salvation are entirely subject to the Roman Pontiff." [4,5]

Pope Clement V, Council of Vienne, Decree # 30, 1311-1312, ex cathedra: "Since however there is for both regulars and seculars, for superiors and subjects, for exempt and non-exempt, one universal Church, outside of which there is no salvation, for all of whom there is one Lord, one faith, and one baptism…" [3,5]

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Sess. 8, Nov. 22, 1439, ex cathedra: "Whoever wishes to be saved, needs above all to hold the Catholic faith; unless each one preserves this whole and inviolate, he will without a doubt perish in eternity." [5]

Pope Leo X, Fifth Lateran Council, Session 11, Dec. 19, 1516, ex cathedra: "For, regulars and seculars, prelates and subjects, exempt and non-exempt, belong to the one universal Church, outside of which no one at all is saved, and they all have one Lord and one faith." [3,5]

Pope Pius IV, Council of Trent, "Iniunctum nobis," Nov. 13, 1565, ex cathedra: "This true Catholic faith, outside of which no one can be saved… I now profess and truly hold…" [2,4]

Pope Benedict XIV, Nuper ad nos, March 16, 1743, Profession of Faith: "This faith of the Catholic Church, without which no one can be saved, and which of my own accord I now profess and truly hold…" [2,4]

Pope Pius IX, Vatican Council I, Session 2, Profession of Faith, 1870, ex cathedra: "This true Catholic faith, outside of which none can be saved, which I now freely profess and truly hold…" [2,4]

Pope St. Gregory the Great, quoted in Summo Iugiter Studio, 590-604: "The holy universal Church teaches that it is not possible to worship God truly except in her and asserts that all who are outside of her will not be saved." [1]

Pope Innocent III, Eius exemplo, Dec. 18, 1208: "By the
heart we believe and by the mouth we confess the one Church, not of heretics, but the Holy Roman, Catholic, and Apostolic Church outside of which we believe that no one is saved." [3]

Pope Clement VI, Super quibusdam, Sept. 20, 1351: "In the second place, we ask whether you and the Armenians obedient to you believe that no man of the wayfarers outside the faith of this Church, and outside the obedience to the Pope of Rome, can finally be saved." [1,4]

Pope St. Pius V, Bull excommunicating the heretic Queen Elizabeth of England, Feb. 25, 1570: "The sovereign jurisdiction of the one holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, outside of which there is no salvation, has been given by Him, unto Whom all power in Heaven and on Earth is given, the King who reigns on high, but to one person on the face of the Earth, to Peter, prince of the Apostles... If any shall contravene this Our decree, we bind them with the same bond of anathema." [1,3,5]

Pope Leo XII, Ubi Primum (# 14), May 5, 1824: "It is impossible for the most true God, who is Truth itself, the best, the wisest Provider, and the Rewarder of good men, to approve all sects who profess false teachings which are often inconsistent with one another and contradictory, and to confer eternal rewards on their members… by divine faith we hold one Lord, one faith, one baptism… This is why we profess that there is no salvation outside the Church." [4]

Pope Leo XII, Quod hoc ineunte (# 8), May 24, 1824: "We address all of you who are still removed from the true Church and the road to salvation. In this universal rejoicing, one thing is lacking: that having been called by the inspiration of the Heavenly Spirit and having broken every decisive snare, you might sincerely agree with the mother Church, outside of whose teachings there is no salvation." [4]

Pope Gregory XVI, Mirari Vos (# 13), Aug. 15, 1832: "With the admonition of the apostle, that 'there is one God, one faith, one baptism' (Eph. 4:5), may those fear who contrive the notion that the safe harbor of salvation is open to persons of any religion whatever. They should consider the testimony of Christ Himself that 'those who are not with Christ are against Him,' (Lk. 11:23) and that they disperse unhappily who do not gather with Him. Therefore, 'without a doubt, they will perish forever, unless they hold the Catholic faith whole and inviolate (Athanasian Creed)." [1,4,5]

Pope Gregory XVI, Summo Iugiter Studio (# 2), May 27, 1832: "Finally some of these misguided people attempt to persuade themselves and others that men are not saved only in the Catholic religion, but that even heretics may attain eternal life." [1,3]

Pope Pius IX, Ubi primum (# 10), June 17, 1847: "For 'there is one universal Church outside of which no one at all is saved; it contains regular and secular prelates along with those under their jurisdiction, who all profess one Lord, one faith and one baptism." [3,4]

Pope Pius IX, Nostis et Nobiscuм (# 10), Dec. 8, 1849: "In particular, ensure that the faithful are deeply and thoroughly convinced of the truth of the doctrine that the Catholic faith is necessary for attaining salvation. (This doctrine, received from Christ and emphasized by the Fathers and Councils, is also contained in the formulae of the profession of faith used by Latin, Greek and Oriental Catholics)." [1,4]

Pope Pius IX, Syllabus of Modern Errors, Dec. 8, 1864 - Proposition 16: "Man may, in the observance of any religion whatever, find the way of eternal salvation, and arrive at eternal salvation."33 - Condemned. [4]

Pope Leo XIII, Tametsi futura prospicientibus (# 7), Nov. 1, 1900: "Christ is man's 'Way'; the Church also is His 'Way'… Hence all who would find salvation apart from the Church, are led astray and strive in vain." [1,4]

Pope St. Pius X, Iucunda sane (# 9), March 12, 1904: "Yet at the same time We cannot but remind all, great and small, as Pope St. Gregory did, of the absolute necessity of having recourse to this Church in order to have eternal salvation…" [1,4]

Pope St. Pius X, Editae saepe (# 29), May 26, 1910: "The Church alone possesses together with her magisterium the power of governing and sanctifying human society. Through her ministers and servants (each in his own station and office), she confers on mankind suitable and necessary means of salvation." [4]

Pope Pius XI, Mortalium Animos (# 11), Jan. 6, 1928: "The Catholic Church is alone in keeping the true worship. This is the fount of truth, this is the house of faith, this is the temple of God: if any man enter not here, or if any man go forth from it, he is a stranger to the hope of life and salvation." [1,4,5]

Pope Julius III, Council of Trent, On the Sacraments of Baptism and Penance, Sess. 14, Chap. 2, ex cathedra: "But in fact this sacrament [Penance] is seen to differ in many respects from baptism. For, apart from the fact that the matter and form, by which the essence of a sacrament is constituted, are totally distinct, there is certainly no doubt that the minister of baptism need not be a judge, since the Church exercises judgment on no one who has not previously entered it by the gate of baptism. For what have I to do with those who are without (1 Cor. 5:12), says the Apostle. It is otherwise with those of the household of the faith, whom Christ the Lord by the laver of baptism has once made 'members of his own body' (1 Cor. 12:13)." [4,5]

Pope Eugene IV, The Council of Florence, "Exultate Deo," Nov. 22, 1439, ex cathedra: "Holy baptism, which is the gateway to the spiritual life, holds the first place among all the sacraments; through it we are made members of Christ and of the body of the Church. And since death entered the universe through the first man, 'unless we are born again of water and the Spirit, we cannot,' as the Truth says, 'enter into the kingdom of heaven'. The matter of this sacrament is real and natural water." [6]

Pope Pius XII, Mystici Corporis (# 22), June 29, 1943: "Actually only those are to be numbered among the members of the Church who have received the laver of regeneration [water baptism] and profess the true faith." [6]
Pope Pius XII, Mystici Corporis (# 27), June 29, 1943: "He (Christ) also determined that through Baptism (cf. Jn. 3:5) those who should believe would be incorporated in the Body of the Church." [2,6]

Pope Pius XII, Mediator Dei (# 43), Nov. 20, 1947: "In the same way, actually that baptism is the distinctive mark of all Christians, and serves to differentiate them from those who have not been cleansed in this purifying stream and consequently are not members of Christ, the sacrament of holy orders sets the priest apart from the rest of the faithful who have not received this consecration." [6]

Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, Constitution 1, 1215, ex cathedra: "But the sacrament of baptism is consecrated in water at the invocation of the undivided Trinity - namely, Father, Son and Holy Ghost - and brings salvation to both children and adults when it is correctly carried out by anyone in the form laid down by the Church." [6]

Pope Benedict XIV, Nuper ad nos, March 16, 1743, Profession of Faith: "Likewise (I profess) that baptism is necessary for salvation, and hence, if there is imminent danger of death, it should be conferred at once and without delay, and that it is valid if conferred with the right matter and form and intention by anyone, and at any time." [1,2]

Pope Pius XI, Quas Primas (# 15), Dec. 11, 1925: "Indeed this kingdom is presented in the Gospels as such, into which men prepare to enter by doing penance; moreover, they cannot enter it except through faith and baptism, which, although an external rite, yet signifies and effects an interior regeneration." [1,6]

Pope St. Leo the Great, dogmatic letter to Flavian, Council of Chalcedon, 451: "Let him heed what the blessed apostle Peter preaches, that sanctification by the Spirit is effected by the sprinkling of Christ's blood (1 Pet. 1:2); and let him not skip over the same apostle's words, knowing that you have been redeemed from the empty way of life you inherited from your fathers, not with corruptible gold and silver but by the precious blood of Jesus Christ, as of a lamb without stain or spot (1 Pet. 1:18). Nor should he withstand the testimony of blessed John the apostle: and the blood of Jesus, the Son of God, purifies us from every sin (1 Jn. 1:7); and again, This is the victory which conquers the world, our faith. Who is there who conquers the world save one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? It is He, Jesus Christ, who has come through water and blood, not in water only, but in water and blood. And because the Spirit is truth, it is the Spirit who testifies. For there are three who give testimony - Spirit and water and blood. And the three are one. (1 Jn. 5:4-8) in other words, the Spirit of sanctification and the Blood of redemption and the water of Baptism. These three are one and remain indivisible. None of them is separable from its link with the others." [1,2,6]

    It behooves us to look closely at the favorite "authoritative quote" so misapplied in the Treatise and by all opposers of BOB/BOD:

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, "Cantate Domino," 1441, ex cathedra: "The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Church before the end of their lives; that the unity of this ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only for those who abide in it do the Church's sacraments contribute to salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety and practices of the Christian militia produce eternal rewards; and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church." [1,2,5]

    Look closely at this paragraph immediately above and one sees two basic parts, the first that teaches that "all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Church before the end of their lives" (in other words, dealing with those who are outside the Church, and the second, "that the unity of this ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only for those who abide in it do the Church's sacraments contribute to salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety and practices of the Christian militia produce eternal rewards; and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church," which deals with those who are inside the Church. Notice that it is clearly referring to the second part (those inside the Church) when it uses the word "persevered" to specify what they must do. To sacrifice all and give any manner of alms etc. but then fail to persevere within the Church is to be in that category in which "nobody can be saved." Only the first part of this paragraph pertains to those who are outside the Church (and hence required to seek baptism), and the only condition it places upon them is to be "joined to the Church before the end of their lives." Since this does not in any manner address what it takes to be "joined to the Church" it in no way excludes whatever means God may elect to use in some specific case where water baptism was not obtainable but nevertheless sought.

    So, what all this means is that the above quotations can therefore be eliminated as valid prooftexts by which some use to deny BOB/BOD. It has to be clear that none of the above quotes even address BOB/BOD, let alone condemn it, for indeed if any of the above could have been so taken, how is it that so many popes, saints, doctors, fathers, and other formal doctrinal sources could ever possibly ignored these in their affirmation of Baptism of Blood and Baptism of Desire?

Griff Ruby