Author Topic: The heresy of Lumen Gentium: Subsistit in (Read 30399 times)

Daegus · « **Reply #55 on:** July 11, 2011, 03:22:11 PM »

Quote from: ajpirc

The definition of no salvation outside the Catholic Church:

Does it mean that one must fully be inside the Church?

or

Does it mean that salvation only comes from Christ, through the Catholic Church?

What the phrase Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus means is that, if anyone dies while they are outside of the Church, they will go to Hell. No exceptions. Even aborted children go to Hell, but the kind of Hell they go to is devoid of suffering and is what is referred to as Limbo. Limbo is a doctrine that cannot be denied, and I believe that the denial of Limbo was condemned by a certain Pope.. Can't remember who though..

Anyways, outside the Church there is no grace. Without grace there is no salvation. Therefore, outside the Church, there is no salvation. To hold that you can obtain grace outside the Church is a condemned heresy. Baptism of desire/blood are things that happen to put you inside of the Church before God allows you to die to meet His Supreme Justice. Therefore, it all still works. There are only Catholics in heaven.

At the same time, let us not say or even be convinced that any significant amount of people, compared to those who claim to profess the Christian faith, are going to be saved by baptism of blood/desire. To obtain a baptism of blood or desire one would have to be very sincere about their faith, which most people lack-- true sincerity.

ajpirc · « **Reply #56 on:** July 11, 2011, 03:26:31 PM »

Quote from: Daegus

All Protestants are heretics insofar as they deny the true Church of Christ and her Magisterium. There is not a doubt in my mind that the vast majority of Protestants will go to Hell because their religion bears no grace whatsoever. After they are baptised and are justified for the very first time, if they commit even 1 mortal sin they lose the state of grace and will go straight to Hell if they die.

The most horrible thing about this is that, as someone else said, Protestants don't care to find the truth because Protestantism suits them. It is much harder to be a Catholic than it is a Protestant, because the Protestant false religion encourages and teaches spiritual lethargy. Most Protestants don't seem to care about whether or not our faith is true. All they want is to say 1 stupid prayer that means virtually nothing to Christ and then they're "saved". They've sprung forth many heresies and historical fables about the Church, indicating that they don't care about the Church.

I found a quote from St. Augustine. I found it in a NO Catholic's post on CAF. They were refuting that Protestants are heretics.

Quote

"But though the doctrine which men hold be false and perverse, if they do not maintain it with passionate obstinacy, especially when they have not devised it by the rashness of their own presumption, but have accepted it from parents who had been misguided and had fallen into error, and if they are with anxiety seeking the truth, and are prepared to be set right when they have found it, such men are not to be counted heretics."

ajpirc · « **Reply #57 on:** July 11, 2011, 04:06:20 PM »

Any comment?

Daegus · « **Reply #58 on:** July 11, 2011, 04:56:31 PM »

The Novus Ordo sectarian religion is far from being Catholic itself, so it wouldn't surprise me if they could successfully "refute" (in their own minds) no salvation outside of the Church. See, it's easy to refute something regarding the faith when you don't realize that it's condemned to do so and all of your opinions are heresies. That is what N.O. Catholics do. They condemn you and call you a heretic, schismatic, etc. and deny your Catholicity, all the while maintaining the heresies of "imperfect" communion with heretics.

Quite frankly, I'm astonished at how anyone can talk about "imperfect" communion. Are the Protestant heretics INSIDE of the Church or not? No? Then they are not "in communion" with the Church, PERIOD. To be in communion with the Church, you have to be INSIDE of it. No one would ever say that excommunicants are in communion with the Church. That's ridiculous. They are not in the Church (because they have been cast out of it and into the outer darkness), so therefore they must be outside of it. It's basic logic that doesn't register in the minds of many N.O. Catholics who don't dare question the multitude of heresies they've been fed by Vatican II.

With regards to the quote from Augustine, we see here how Augustine maintains that VII followers themselves tend to be manifest heretics. I've tried exposing the VII false religion to N.O. Catholics before, but they don't listen and use weak and ambiguous arguments to try and beat me down. They do not want to hold that Protestants are heretics because that is anti-(false)Ecuмenism. Sometimes, they even have the audacity to say that because the saints aren't infallible, we can just ignore them! How exceedingly pretentious.

Anyways.. You see, therefore, because they are obstinate in their heresies we cannot do anything but assume that they (many of them) are, in fact, heretics.

There are so many people who have more than what it takes to be elevated to sainthood when they die.. and yet they are held back and damned by heresies that they do not want to let go of.. It's very sad.. Pray for mother Church. :cry:

ajpirc · « **Reply #59 on:** July 11, 2011, 06:45:31 PM »

I still don't understand when someone (Protestant) is baptized (entrance into the Church), how they aren't part of the Church because they can't be unbaptized, but that if they re-enter the Church (become Catholic or re-become Catholic since they've already been baptized into the Church) they can't be re-baptized.

Someone said something earlier on, I think it was J.Paul, that Baptism is a Catholic sacrament (of course) that is abused by the Protestants. Shouldn't one being baptized have to profess the Catholic Faith for the Baptism to be valid? I mean they are being baptized into the Catholic Church, but profess heresy and hate the Catholic Faith.